Adding bones to a switch layer

tonym · Post by **tonym** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:45 pm

I just noticed that you can add bones to a switch layer! I've always assumed bones only belong in bone layers, so this newly-discovered feature blows my mind.

It's like if a Jedi had a lightsaber for years and years and then one day noticed a button that made it work like a flashlight. Whoa.

Anyhow, I'd like to add some bones to a switch layer, but why? When do you add bones to a switch layer?

Tony M

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:02 pm

Can't test this right now, but it would simplify the riggs I'm working with right now. In the moment they have put a bunch of bone layers inside a switch layer. Eliminating this would allow to use just one bone timeline while switching between shapes.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:10 pm

Bones in switches are fantastic but can also be a tad limited in their use.

I use them for hands. I have two hand layers with fingers controlled by bones. The layers are identical. When i switch the layers the hand goes from the front to the back. I use the bones to bend the fingers, and the switch to flip the hand.

One reason they can be limited is that if the switch layer shapes aren't in the same position... one set of bones can't control everything.

-vern

tonym · Post by **tonym** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:41 pm

slowtiger wrote:Can't test this right now, but it would simplify the riggs I'm working with right now. In the moment they have put a bunch of bone layers inside a switch layer. Eliminating this would allow to use just one bone timeline while switching between shapes.

Yeh, I bet that would simplify the animation process. Jumping from bone layer to bone layer to bone layer must be slower than having all the bones in one spot.

Did you just realize bones can go into a switch layer too? Maybe I'm the only one who failed to notice that tiny bit of information mentioned in the tutorial.

heyvern wrote:I use the bones to bend the fingers, and the switch to flip the hand.

Oh, that's neat. I'll have to remember that. (At present, all my characters' hands are very cartoony, so the fronts and backs look the same.)

And other nifty uses for bones in switch layers? Anyone?

How about you? Yes, you, you with your hand on the mouse. What do you use them for?

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:29 pm

n the moment they have put a bunch of bone layers inside a switch layer. Eliminating this would allow to use just one bone timeline while switching between shapes.

bear in mind that depending on how different your switch layers are to eachother will dictate if you can use a 'master' bone rig on the switch layer itself... For heyverns swtich front/back hand technique this is fantastice - but if you are specifically putting very different boned elements in a switch layer you might find you still need to switch bone stacks rather than have a master switch bone set.

Also note that 'reset bones' doesnt work on switch layers! so you should make yourself a reset action for that swtich layer bone set.

tonym · Post by **tonym** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:50 pm

funksmaname wrote:Also note that 'reset bones' doesnt work on switch layers!

Ah! More new bone-related info. Thanks!

tonym · Post by **tonym** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:52 pm

( double post )

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:01 pm

Another use could be for arm and leg "turns".

A leg or an arm doesn't need to change that much for a turn but it does look different from the side or front.

Putting bones on the switch would allow for bending of the leg, and the switch for transitioning between different views.

Another use would be for eye switches. Suppose you have a very cartoony character with different eyes.. angry, happy, sad, wide, etc etc.

Putting bones in the switch you could move the eyes around in ways that layer translation wouldn't do.

And don't forget about point/bone binding on switch layers!!

Bind the pupils of each eye switch layer to pupil bones... no you can animate the pupils no matter what switch is keyed.

A bone on frame 0 with bound points in any position on a layer can move those points on later layers with out "extreme distortions" (rotation is problematic due to offset center of rotation).

For instance if you bound parts of the eyes (lids) to bones on each switch layer you could have the ability to alter the switch layers final point positions. This gives you a way to make variations so all the keys for the same switch layers don't look exactly the same... you could make an "angry" eye switch layer "more angry" by tweaking bones. If you include the eyebrows in the eye switch you coulc control them as well.

Same thing for lip sync switch layers. The hard part would be binding all the same points to the bones for all the layers in the switch.

My brain is spinning with ideas for bones and switch layers like this... wish I had more time to try them all out.

-vern

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:03 am

Also you can use it to make easy a body turn. With a bone layer you should move the bones positions to create the illusion of the rotation of the body. But the problem comes with the order of the shapes (layers)... Maybe you want to have the arm sometimes over the body sometimes below the body. With switch layers you can have several copies of the same vector layer with the shapes in the proper order for each view. just switch to the correct vector layer on the proper time and you can put the arm (leg) above or below the body when you want.
I strongly recommend use actions to perform that modifications. Actions can do all the job in one shot!. (also you can record ab action to "reset all bones" in a switch layer so you don't loose that feature...)
-G

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:48 am

This gives you a way to make variations so all the keys for the same switch layers don't look exactly the same... you could make an "angry" eye switch layer "more angry" by tweaking bones. If you include the eyebrows in the eye switch you coulc control them as well.

Using the stacking technique i described in another thread, i actually just rig the face so i have full bone control over pupils, eyebrows, eyelids, lips, tongue - and record actions for each of the shapes i need (blink/mouthshapes/etc)... that way i dont need to mess with switches to make an angry or happy face... i bone the bottom lip/tongue/chin to 1 bone, and have other bones for the actual lips so i can 'jabber' the mouth about moving the bottom jaw with the bone... also, i tend to use a single bone for both pupils - as i dont expect i'll ever need them to split alignment (and if i do, i can always use point motion, or maybe a small bone for the 2nd pupil that is just parented to the main pupil bone...

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:35 pm

One thing to keep in mind about using switch layers extensively... there is no key frame interpolation. It is always linear... no ease in or out.

I have encountered situations where bone motion and other key frame motion could never be "synced" with a switch unless everything was linear interpolation.

I am hoping this will be "fixed" in future versions. Having the same interpolation types available for a switch layer would expand their usefulness.

-vern

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:43 pm

i try to avoid switch layers whenever possible.

tonym · Post by **tonym** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:06 pm

Thanks for all these replies!

There's a lot of information to digest here.

Tony M