Using point motion keys as vector position backups

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:41 pm

I don't know if anyone else does this but I realized it is really handy and simple so I thought I would jot it down.

I usually have very complex vector layers in a lot of my stuff. I also do a lot of switch layers. One of the things that bugs me is trying to use the magnet tool on selected areas of a very busy vector layer. AS doesn't have the ability to "lock" points so I came up with this "poor man's lock points" technique.

I will edit the mesh on frame 1 (or any frame for that matter. Sometimes I have several). These frames are "backups". I store point motion that I might need to get back for whatever reason.

So let's say I am using the magnet tool on a specific section of the vector and of course it distorts something it shouldn't. I just select those areas and copy the point motion from frame 0 and paste it on whatever frame I am working in... instant restoration of the points moved by the magnet of any other tools.

If I totally mess something up or don't like where it's going I can restore it or move to a previous frame... or whatever.

Obviously this is all done before or separately from any "real" animation.

At the end when I am done editing, I just copy the point keyframe to frame 0 and my mesh is updated.

I was just doing some mouth switch layers for my Larry character and had to use the magnet tool to "squinch" up his nose and pull out his cheeks. During this process I completely distorted his eyes and a bunch of other shapes there were nearby. I just restore those points from frame 0 and keep on trucking.

You can even mix and match several key frames... copy editing from a selection of points on one key frame to another.

This is a way I do interpolated switch layers as well using only 1 layer as my base. I use several key frames of the original layer to create my different switch positions. I can easily scrub through the animation to test how they work. Duplicate that layer as many times as needed, copy the keys to frame 0 and delete the others. I keep the original as well incase I need to create other in between positions.

Just make sure to add a key frame for ALL the points first when doing this otherwise the points aren't "locked in" for each key frame.

Hope this makes sense.

-vern

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:37 pm

Very helpful heyvern!!. Magnet tool was a little ... I didn't know how to use it!! So with your tip there is no fright to use magnet tool (or whatever) to create switch vector layers or point motion.

Thanks!!m Very hepful tip!!

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:46 pm

Hey!!!
I have Fazec tools instaled into my 5.4 Moho for linux and the new magnet tool does ALL WHAT YOU NEED.

1) You HAVE to select the points what you want to be affected by magnet tool.
2) There is a button that restores selected points from frame 0 automatically.

It is PERFECT!!!!.

Heyvern you MUST use this tool!!!. Go to this link
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3507
and enjoy!!!

Regards

Rasheed · Post by **Rasheed** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:08 pm

Hmm, still sounds a bit like how one animates with Flash, but then much less comfortable. I think AS is not very suited to develop a character. I think an external program (or pencil and paper) is still needed.

OTOH If there were plans to create a separate character design program, using the same vectors, layers, etc. as AS, it would get my vote. Of course, such a character developer would need a line test module, a bit like Plastic Animation Paper, or similar stand-alone 2D character designers. I would like to see an animation monitor that shows in real time what the effects are when you change something in a character. It should also be possible to suspend selected types of interpolation temporarily, for development purposes.

I think your solution with the keys (and I assume onion skinning) is a bit of a kludge, because it takes so many steps to set up (remember, for each animation channel you have to set the keys, even for the selected ones), and mistakes are easily made, especially if one has a complex setup.

artfx · Post by **artfx** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:01 pm

Rasheed wrote:Hmm, still sounds a bit like how one animates with Flash, but then much less comfortable. I think AS is not very suited to develop a character. I think an external program (or pencil and paper) is still needed.

This seems an odd statement to me. So far everything I have done has been developed directly in AS with no outside help and once I got the flow, it seems very easy. Granted I have never used another vector app before so this is all new to me. Thinking in layers, creating "shapes", it's just another rhythm.

Rasheed · Post by **Rasheed** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:31 pm

Well, you could be right. Perhaps it is because I'm just all thumbs when it comes to drawing. Perhaps in another ten years I will be efficient enough to draw directly in a vector application. At the moment not, it seems. I hope to be an animator once (maybe in 30 years or so?). My learning goes so slow, slow, slow. It's just frustrating.

Until then, it is drawing with pencil and paper, I'm afraid.

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:17 pm

Rasheed wrote:Well, you could be right. Perhaps it is because I'm just all thumbs when it comes to drawing. Perhaps in another ten years I will be efficient enough to draw directly in a vector application. At the moment not, it seems. I hope to be an animator once (maybe in 30 years or so?). My learning goes so slow, slow, slow. It's just frustrating.

Until then, it is drawing with pencil and paper, I'm afraid.

Come on! don't get depressed!. Think that this is for FUN! Perhaps your drawings don't look so "beauty" but if you put effort and ilusion in every thing you do it has a lot of value. If your drawing are regular then concentrate in your other habilities. You have a lot of knowledge of animation and multimedia stuff. So come on! show us your drawing altough they are not perfect. You can balance your animations with other skills.
Cheer up!

bupaje · Post by **bupaje** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:42 pm

Come on! don't get depressed!.

I second that. You have some very good ideas and understanding. If the drawing isn't where you want it yet, don't worry, just keep drawing. I'm no pro, but feel lucky having gotten to meet a few through school; the key to getting better is to draw, draw, draw. Maybe try one of those "30 ____in 30 days" type things but make it say 30 pages in 30 days and draw one sketch book page full of little characters each day for a month and post them. I bet by the end of the first month you'll see improvement, by the end of the second more. In fact I like this idea for me, hmmm....

In the meantime maybe pick up some of the character art from cartoonsolutions.com and show what you can do animating and rigging.

Sorry for this OT blurb.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:24 pm

Rasheed, I think maybe you missed the point of my technique.

I am just using the existing point animation for a new purpose. I create a lot of switch layers that use interpolation, so the points have to match.

By creating the "switches" in the key frames of one "template" layer it saves trouble and also allows me to have easy quick access to the original "untouched" layer point information.

Maybe I missed something?

As far as AS for developing characters... lately, I draw all my characters FROM SCRATCH in AS. I don't want to use paper or another program (especially Flash! Ick!). I occasionally do rough sketches in Photoshop with my wacom or on a bit of scrap paper lying about, but that is just for reference not final use. Larry the Liger was drawn from the ground up in AS. Point by point, NOT using the freehand tool (I hate the freehand tool).

That IS drawing for me.

I have been "drawing with a mouse" by dragging points around for 15 years... I may have permanently damaged my brain.

-vern

Rasheed · Post by **Rasheed** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:04 pm

Thanks for the encouragements. And Vern, you rock! You can draw circles around me when I'm trying to draw some lip poses.

Nevertheless, I'm really glad I could help some of the forum users lately. I often have very deep thoughts and the problem is sometimes channeling them into my keyboard... or drawings. What I can see (and hear, smell, and feel) with my minds eye is not the same what comes out of my hands, both in drawing and writing. So I put out suggestions and hope others can pick up the signals and do something creative with it.

And using the keys as a storage medium for your drawings is brilliant, Vern. I hadn't considered that. Sorry, if I misrepresented your idea as a bad thing. It is only a kludge if you don't know how to use it. And I now seem to know how to do it.

Thanks Vern.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:28 pm

Thanks Rasheed. I really appreciate your ideas. You have sent me off on some interesting voyages of discovery.

I am really digging this "key frame storage" thing. In one example I wasn't sure exactly which direction to go in so I had like six frames that were all a little bit different.

I was able to copy a little bit from there, a touch from that one, some from over here. I liked the chin from that frame but the nose from that other frame etc etc, almost like cooking! It's an interesting way to work.

It was like having several sketches stacked up and being able to instantly copy the best parts from each.

-vern

Sage · Post by **Sage** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:37 am

Vern saw you refer to this thread in another post, and it is what I have been doing the last few days. I love how this saves time to make switch layers.

One question though if you ran into it, when you have a more circular shape, like say a base to a candle stick that has legs, and it is moving around. Is there a way to keep the points from moving into the center? Or is that something you just have to pull back out the points at so many key frames?