Rigging photoshop layers

[derfeznoj]

Hi,

I'm. following this tutorial. However, it may be that it is no longer accurate (V13). I'm using v13.5.2 on Mac Monterey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoRmmqA1yag
When rigging limbs that are behind a body, the tutorial explains that you use the transform tool to move hidden limbs to the side where they are better seen and edited. Then you create the bones. Unfortunately, at a critical point, the voice goes silent. During the silence, the video shows what appears to be binding the image layer to the bone, but I don't know if this is accurate.
Then, it shows selecting the bone and using the 'offset bone' command to move the limbs back to the natural location. When the bones are moved back, whether the layers are bound or not, the image layer(s) move with the bone. It all looks okay in manipulate bones mode.
What is confusing me is the tutorial shows that editing the bone(s) will move the hidden bones and the image layers back to the location where you rigged them for easier editing. However, when I edit the bone(s), only the bones move to the side of the character. The image layers associated with the bones stay hidden behind the body.
I'm probably missing a key step, or maybe this was an old SM tutorial that no longer works with MP 13.5.2. Any advice is appreciated, I'm in learning mode.

[synthsin75]

He seems to just be using the default flexi-binding, so as long as you move the art, draw the bones over it, have enough bone strength to influence the art, and offset the bone back into their proper places, it should work. I'm guessing that you may not have enough bone strength, but if you played with the file a bit, you may have released the layer, in which case you'd need to select the image layer and use the menu command Bone>Reset All Bone Rigging.

[Greenlaw]

Can you post the timecodes for the parts that you have questions about? The video is almost an hour long and I don't wish to watch the entire thing.

Generally speaking, the Offset tool isn't used much for rigging these days. It was originally intended to minimize the effect of certain bones on certain body parts by distancing them, but nowadays you can use features like Use Selected Bones For Flexi-Binding to exclude unwanted influence from other bones. That said, I occasionally find the Offset tool still useful in special situations.

For the most part though, I rig my characters with all the limbs placed in their proper position. If I need to see an occluded limb while I'm rigging it, I simply hide whichever layer is occluding the limb.

if I need to show and hide multiple layers while working on the rig, I use Layer Comps to quickly switch between custom character views. (Layer Comps is your friend.)

If you really want to use Offset, here's how it works...

1. In the setup frame 0, move the limb artwork you wish to offset away from the body artwork.
2. Add the bones you wish to bind to the limb.
3. Select the Offset tool to move the limb into position behind the body artwork.

That's it. The 'confusing' part might be that when you deselect the Offset tool, the limb and bones will jump back to the original offset position. This is normal because what you want is the distanced influence of the bones from this offset position. When you enter frame 1, the limb will jump back to the 'in place' position you set using the Offset tool.

TBH, for most rigging situations, it's a lot easier and a lot less confusing to use the Use Selected Bones For Flexi-Binding binding method instead of the Offset tool method.

I hope this helps. When you can provide the timecodes, I'll be happy to watch the sections and let you know if I can help.

[Greenlaw]

A little more info:

The situation where I may still use Offset is when I want to avoid bone clutter, especially when I need to include multiple 'sub-rigs' inside my rig. But I find this is no longer necessary now that we have Vitruvian Bones in Moho 13.5.2.

[derfeznoj]

Thanks for all the advice. Am I better off not using this method and instead implementing vitruvian bones? It appears the lost marble transition to v13.5.2 have made some prior online tutorials somewhat dated and no longer relevant.

The no dialog issue starts around 18:30.

[Greenlaw]

Thanks for all the advice. Am I better off not using this method and instead implementing vitruvian bones?

It depends on what you need to do. I only use the Offset Tool when it makes my task more convenient but that's pretty rare these days. For me it's more of a 'glad I have it when I need it' kind of thing, but I don't find it necessary or especially useful most of time.

Vitruvian Bones don't replace the Offset Tool, it has a completely different function. V-bones are a way to switch between 'sub-rigs', and with it, all the bones can be in the same location without requiring the offset. Before V-Bones arrived, I would use either Victor's methods, which used an offset for the 'sub-rigs' but that didn't require the Offset Tool. But sometimes, if the setup was simple enough, I might use the Offset Tool instead of Victors technique. So, this technique or using V-Bones may or may not apply in your case.

I sometimes use the Offset tool for a character's long tail. This doesn't have to do with rigging though. I use it because the tail bones can be hard to select when they overlap the character during animation, and when I use Design Mode to temporarily jump to frame zero, I can more easily select the offset bones there, and then Design Mode back to my animation frame. So, again, a good feature to have when I need it.

You'll have to decide if using the Offset Tool helps you or not. As mentioned, it depends on what you need to rig and how you intend to animate it.

It appears the lost marble transition to v13.5.2 have made some prior online tutorials somewhat dated and no longer relevant.

I haven't seen the video you are watching but I'm pretty sure it's not an official 'Lost Marble' tutorial, so I wouldn't put this on Lost Marble. Many animators have their own workflows that are specific to the type of work they do or how they like to animate. If the techniques work for the artist, they're still relevant. Even my methods described earlier, for example, are techniques that just happen to work well for me but they may not be ideal for everybody.

I would experiment with a different techniques from various artists and see which ones works best for your project. After some experience, you might even come up with some new techniques. (And please share them when you do!)

Thanks for posting the timecode. I'll watch the segment in just a bit and follow up later today.

[Greenlaw]

That said, between 13.0 and 13.5.2, yes some techniques are definitely 'obsolete' because 13.0-specific features (the new Actions window and paint tools) were removed. Unless you intend to keep 13.0 installed (like to use the paint tools,) I wouldn't bother watching videos covering 13.0-specific features.

But any technique that works with 12.5 should work with 13.5.x, because the latest Moho is a direct descendent of 12.5 and not 13.0. Just be aware that 13.5.2 and newer versions of Moho will always introduce new and improved techniques (or maybe just different ones.)

[derfeznoj]

Thanks! I'm new to Moho and learning/experimenting. I have subscribed to various tutorials to help me sort through the learning process and I'll need to keep version changes in mind. To start I think I'll work with standard rigging and leave vitruvian for later. I'll also experiment with/without offsetting.

[derfeznoj]

Do you have any URLs for tutorials on the preferred methods for rigging .PSDs in Moho Pro? I'm in the process of organizing the .PSD layers in PS.

Regards,

[SuperSGL]

I never really used the off set before and I created a character that it seemed every part was getting in the way so I used it. WHAT A PAIN trying to add more detail or adding more switch layers it just kept jumping back and forth or adding a smart bone on frame '0' and going to frame '1' was not the result I was going for so I would have to go back to '0' and change it and check it again. Always got confused using or when to use flexi-binding but knowing I can add point binding or change to whatever I need for the most part always start with flexi-binding.