Locked Tangent

[mgo]

When using the Freehand tool some points get locked tangents. I can move the points, but not the tangents. Even if I convert to a peak, and then back to smooth, the tangents are locked.



Any way to unlock the tangents?

Moho 13.5.1, macOS Big Sur 11.4, MBA M1

[Greenlaw]

I've seen that bug twice before, and both times happened on the same morning a few weeks ago when I was testing something. Normally, you should be able to break the tangents by holding down Alt and click-dragging a handle. But, yeah, this didn't work for me during that incident.

To correct the error, I had to completely quit Moho and relaunch. Then, I was able to edit the shape as normal. But then, it happened again with another shape and I had to repeat the quit and relaunch.

Weirdly, Moho worked correctly for me after that and I haven't been able to reproduce this bug since.

I'm going to try again right now and see what happens.

[Greenlaw]

Ok, this is still weird for me. I just now tried it, and ran into the 'locked point' problem again, which I haven't seen for weeks. So I quit Moho, tried again, and now the problem is gone, that is, I can edit the bezier handles as normal.

I still don't know how to reliably reproduce this error. From what I've observed in these three cases, it starts when I'm working in a layer that already has an existing shape, and/or when I start with Sharp Corners enabled and then try to switch to smooth points.

The devs had been informed back when I first encountered this but since I wasn't able to reproduce the error, and because nobody else seemed to be seeing the problem, I decided it must be a local issue. But if we're both seeing it, I think it should be looked at by the devs. if you have any info on how to reliably reproduce it, please post here and I'll refer the devs to this thread.

FYI, in my own testing, I tried temporarily removing all third party tools and scripts, but still saw the problem. My initial thinking was it had to do with some experimental drawing tools I was trying out, or a Curvature mod by Synthsin75 I use to put the Beizier button in the Tool options. But this wasn't the case.

I don't think I tried anything else after that because the feature started working correctly for me. To reiterative, I've only seen this problem in Moho 13.5.1 and, so far, it appears to occur randomly. It would be big help to the devs if we can eliminate this 'random' bit.

[mgo]

I used the freehand tool a lot today, and it produced many points with locked tangents. I couldn't say exactly which ones were prone to being locked, but every shape I drew had some.

[Greenlaw]

Ok, thanks. At least now I know it wasn't just my computer where this is happening.

I've informed the devs about this issue again and have pointed them to this thread. Hopefully, they'll figure this one out.

FWIW, I normally keep the handles hidden since Bezier points don't work so when when deforming vectors. I only use Bezier points for non-deforming objects like backgrounds or most props. If I accidentally crate a Bezier point, I can convert it back to a regular Moho point by selecting the point and clicking the Smooth button. Then, I hide the handles and use Curvature instead to adjust the curve (unlike Bezier, this method is fully compatible with bones/mesh deformations.)

If you go this route, I highly recommend getting Synthsin75's Curvature tool mod. This adds the Hide Bezier button in this tool, and it's smart enough to adjust the enabled/disabled state from Transform Points and Add Points. (IMO, this mod really should be native.) You can get the mod here:

Bezier Curve Option

[mgo]

Thanks, Greenlaw. The link to the forum thread works, but the link from there to SynthSins file seems broken.

Did I read this correctly, that beziers are not 100% compatible with bones and mesh deformations?

[synthsin75]

The link to the forum thread works, but the link from there to SynthSins file seems broken.

Yeah, all my Google site links got broken.
I'll see about repairing it.

[Greenlaw]

Did I read this correctly, that beziers are not 100% compatible with bones and mesh deformations?

They're compatible, but bezier curves may not always deform with bones as you might expect. This isn't a bug, it's the nature of bezier points, and there are ways to make them work more predictably. I understand Victor uses bezier curves a lot in rigs, and he posted some useful tips here...

http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtop ... er#p187807

For me, sticking with regular Moho points instead of bezier points has been more predictable for bones deformations and actions, but you should try working with both to see which works better for your workflow.

[mgo]

I ran again into this same annoying problem. While fighting the locked handles (futile attempt) I observed the following pattern:

Activating the grid, moving points around, and then deactivating the grid seems to lock tangent handles. Maybe this will help to tackle the problem.

[mgo]

Unfortunately, quitting and reopening Moho with the affected scene does NOT resolve the problem, making all the artwork with locked tangents useless!

Moho Pro 13.5.5
macOS Monterey 12.6
M1

[mgo]

Ok sry for spamming, just need to write down my observations. These actions can lead to tangent locking, and in some occasions even to locked points:
- using the transform handles on multiple selected points
- deleting a point can lock it's neighbour completely

Maybe my installation is somehow screwed, I'll reinstall just to rule out some weird quirk on my machine.

[mgo]

OK this gets weirder and weirder. I uninstalled Moho and wiped all data I could find, then reinstalled.

Then the symptoms almost immediately reappeared. Funny thing is, now there is a vertex that visually appears to have locked tangents. But: while dragging the vertex the curve is different. After releasing it will snap back, but I can drag the handles, and even though they wont change on screen, while dragging the vertex again I'll see how the curve is supposed to look with the updated handles. It's hard to describe, I made a quick screen recording


After deleting vertices, neighbours immediately locked.

Also: the file I created before the reinstall has still the locked tangents. It appears the data itself is corrupted. It's no big deal, I was experimenting, but this is holding me back to further use Moho. Any ideas?

[SimplSam]

You might be better sharing one of your locked project files....

[Greenlaw]

Do you still have the Curvature mod installed? I had suggested this mod back in August of 2021, but It was updated in March of this year to fix a problem that caused the Bezier Handle display to be inaccurate. Specifically, Moho displayed the handles but they behaved like they were hidden and were thus unselectable. Based on your description, I'm wondering if you still have the old version of the mod.

viewtopic.php?p=204867#p204867

If you have this mod, try replacing it with the latest version.

[mgo]

Here is a file with mostly locked tangents
https://mgo.design/img-share/mgo-splash-test.moho

As for the script: I am not entirely sure I understand what it does exactly, or how to use it. I installed it anyway, but it doesn't seem to cure the problem. Part of it is that it is really random.