PDF Moho Users Manual

[LiquiGraph]

Hello, I'm Craig.
I just wanted to let you all know that I have taken the time and converted the HTML Users Manual to a PDF document. This will make printing easier for anyone who would like a hard copy of the manual. The file can be found at,
http://www.liquigraph.com/Moho/Moho.htm

[Rasheed]

I don't want to hurt your feelings, but isn't the Moho tutorial copyright protected? You didn't mention you have permission of Lost Marble to publish your PDF version of the Moho tutorial.

I saw you asked PayPal donations for "your" work, while the original is free, which is a bit—how should I put this nicely—unconventional. What do you do with the donantions? Is a part of that money going back to the copyright holder (Lost Marble)?

René

[Rai López]

...Something relationated (also starring LM (again )) --> HERE! <--

[Rasheed]

That LM gives one person permission, doesn't mean he gives everyone permission. And asking for a (voluntary) contribution for something you don't own the copyrights for isn't very "cosher" IMO.

[jahnocli]

...asking for a (voluntary) contribution for something you don't own the copyrights for isn't very "cosher" IMO.

I absolutely agree. I have always found this a very helpful and knowledgable community. 7feet and Macton, for example, have provided excellent scripting and other support (worth a helluva lot more than a PDF manual, IMO), and have never charged for their services. If they can do it, what makes LiquiGraph so special?

[Voxel]

Oh c'mon, the guy spent some time converting the html files to a pdf - he's not selling these, just asking for a donation if you feel inclined. If you don't agree don't donate - in fact if you don't agree don't download! But if you think his time was well spent - donate. Or not, the choice is entirely yours.

He's not making money from LM in this regard - look at it as a translation.

[Rhoel]

The words of the copright act is well known to everyone, we can rattle it off by heart: No part of this material may be copie or reproduced in any form without pror written permission of the copyright holders.

In Liguigraph's case, if they had permission to reuse, they should say so, either on thier site or in the PDF. Certainly, it should have been posted here.

I do not know how litigious LM as a company are. I can say that if I was in the situation of seeing someone repackage my work, and asking for voluntary contributions, then I would be sending letters out. LM would be justified in doing the same.

There is one other thing to take into consideration: Liquigraph are a commercial outfit, supplying services and products to others via thier site. Now by hosting this material on their site, they are also attracting traffic and potential customers to thier products. I.e., they are using LM's free forum to advertise thier commercial operation in addition to profiting from LM's copyright material.

Sorry Graig, but this isn't right.

Rhoel

PS: This pdf document is not well made - Acrobat fully supports Contents and index markers, as well as hyperlinks ... yours has neither. If I played with my PDF generator, I am sure I could get the movie files to work as well.

Your comment that you have spent may hours of work is not reflected in this work. the front page is out of focus and the drops shadows both corrupt ant way too heavy. Considering the scope of LM's tutiorial, you should have included a contents guide and maintained the hyperlinks which LM created. This file is poor design.

LM would be fully justified in requesting you to remove it from circulation.

[Rai López]

That LM gives one person permission, doesn't mean he gives everyone permission. And asking for a (voluntary) contribution for something you don't own the copyrights for isn't very "cosher" IMO.

...Something relationated (also starring LM (again )) --> HERE! <--

Nothing more...

[LiquiGraph]

Ok so I see I upset some folks for asking for donations. No problem I'm just a user just like you folks. If anyone is interested in the converted document just send me a messege and I will be happy to send you the file. Otherwise convert it yourself. I just wish Lost Marble would already have produced a printable version.

[Rasheed]

I just wish Lost Marble would already have produced a printable version.

I couldn't agree more. However, I hope you do realize you are on a slippery slope in the way you presented the PDF version of the tutorial.

The problem would be solved if someone was willing to write a real manual in both HTML and full PDF format and perhaps even in book format. Obviously, the book would have to be paid for, but the online versions could be a continuously developing beta version with free donations via PayPal. See examples like Programming in Lua and Thinking in Java.

Especially Bruce Eckel has a good reputation as a teacher and a writer and has developed his "Thinking in..." books by offering the possibility to post online remarks on each and every paragraph by online readers. Now his book not only is a good read, but also proven in practice by many readers who contributed to the book.

I think this is the way of the future for technical and instructional manuals. The manual writer uses his reader audience to test read the text, while he keeps rewriting until all readers agree that the text is clear and to-the-point.

[myles]

Hello everyone.

Well, until Lost Marble chimes in with an opinion, I'll add mine to the discussion (ignoring the little voice that mutters about too many cooks) - how about a compromise position?

Craig (hi Craig!) sends the file to Lost Marble, who then has the option to place it on the Extras page.

If it's accepted, the problem shifts to one of maintenance - will the file be updated every time the Moho documentation is updated?

Regards, Myles.