Exporting with Alpha Channel Legacy Quicktime

[Reindeer]

I'm trying to render a video with a transparent background for further compositing.
I chose Legacy Quicktime and the Animation codec, as it seemed to me the best option for that task. But I don't get the expected QT Animation codec settings (color depth, quality, keyframes, etc.) options to fine tune my render. Moho just gives me the full formats from the drop-down menu (Animation, H264, etc) but as far as I've tried I can't get any settings panels to pop up.

[slowtiger]

Which OS version? I suspect it's fully 64-bit now and doesn't offer any legacy codecs. Use ProRes 4444 instead.

[Reindeer]

Which OS version? I suspect it's fully 64-bit now and doesn't offer any legacy codecs. Use ProRes 4444 instead.

My OS is 10.11.6 (El Capitan). I'd happily use a different format if I had an option to, but Moho seems to offer only the ones in the screenshot I uploaded, and each one is not editable. I mean, that screenshot is the last step before 'Save'.

EDIT: pardon my ignorance, I found ProRes by editing the configurations. I'll try that one right now.

[Reindeer]

Ok, I tried ProRes 4444 AAC and ProRes 4444 ALAC but the same thing happens, these formats get added to the list of my choices but I don't have any further options. All I can do is, 'procede to checkout', so to speak, and click Save.
Meanwhile, I found this old tutorial for ASP9 where it shows exactly that final export settings panel I was expecting and which apparently I'm either missing from Moho or can't figure out how to evoke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmaSdtjexs8

[slowtiger]

ProRes 4444 doesn't offer any more choices, but it's the lossless interchange format between programs. ProRes 422 is a delivery format with "nearly lossless" quality, choose HQ for best quality.

I've found it's a good idea to test all involved programs if they're able to import and export the same formats. This can get surprisingly complex.

[Reindeer]

ProRes 4444 doesn't offer any more choices, but it's the lossless interchange format between programs. ProRes 422 is a delivery format with "nearly lossless" quality, choose HQ for best quality.
I've found it's a good idea to test all involved programs if they're able to import and export the same formats. This can get surprisingly complex.

I can't seem to find the 'HQ' option for ProRes. I just get three ProRes 4444 presets (unless I'm just not seeing it).
I just tried to export a test with ProRes 4444 AAC and ProRes 4444 ALAC and the outcomes are both visibly poorer than the one I did using the QuickTime Animation preset. And, weirdly, they don't have smaller file sizes. Maybe it's due to the fact I can't find the HQ option you mention?

[Reindeer]

I just updated to Moho 12.1 and I was kind of hoping I'd get my export settings solved. I can't figure out why these basic Quick Time settings (as in image) I still get from other apps are not available with Moho. What Moho calls 'Quicktime Legacy' is an un-tweakable format, you can just select it and save.
I need QT Animation compression because it's the only video format that will allow alpha and transparent background (s far as I've seen). The only other way I can get alpha out of Moho is to export a transparent PNG sequence.

[Greenlaw]

Do you have another application that can compile PNG output for the movie file. I normally export to PNG with alpha image sequence first because I tend to composite my animations in AE or Fusion, but also because this requires less RAM on low memory computers. I then output the final movie files from the compositing program and/or editing program. (At that stage, you might not even need the alpha channel, but this depends on your intended final use of course.) Many movie players can compile PNG frames too. (I think the QuickTime Pro Player can, which may give you the options that are missing.)

I know that doesn't solve the Moho movie output issue but you should at least be able to get what you need from it.

[synthsin75]

In Moho 12 and 12.1 I get the compression settings dialog, but when I set it to Animation and Millions of Colors+ it doesn't render transparency and 64bit Moho cannot play the movie in the timeline. Can't get transparency with the PNG Quicktime codec either. So there doesn't seem to be any video formats that support transparency any more.

This has to be a bug.

[slowtiger]

Codecs which contain alpha:
- Animation
- PNG (with millions+ colours)
- PoRes 4444

[Reindeer]

Do you have another application that can compile PNG output for the movie file. I normally export to PNG image sequence first because I tend to composite my animations in AE or Fusion, but also because this requires less RAM on low memory computers. I then output the final movie files from the compositing program and/or editing program. (At that stage, you might not even need the alpha channel, but this depends on your intended final use of course.) Many movie players can compile PNG frames too. (I think the QuickTime Pro Player can.)

Yes, I will use a PNG sequence with transparency, it's a good solution. But I still do wonder why Moho doesn't show me the dialgoue box so I can also render as video (Animation, millions of colours etc etc).

[Reindeer]

In Moho 12 and 12.1 I get the compression settings dialog, but when I set it to Animation and Millions of Colors+ it doesn't render transparency and 64bit Moho cannot play the movie in the timeline. Can't get transparency with the PNG Quicktime codec either. So there doesn't seem to be any video formats that support transparency any more.
This has to be a bug.

I don't even get the dialogue box. It takes me directly to 'Save'. No tweaking whatsoever is possible.

[Reindeer]

Codecs which contain alpha:
- Animation
- PNG (with millions+ colours)
- PoRes 4444

They do, but I don't get any options. Animation will export at full quality, which produces enormous files. If the dialogue box would pop out prior to saving I could tweak it to something lighter.
I also tried ProRes and it didn't export with Alpha CHannel. I'm sure it does but I feel I'm lacking some intermediate dialogue boxes here.

[Greenlaw]

Yes, I will use a PNG sequence with transparency, it's a good solution. But I still do wonder why Moho doesn't show me the dialgoue box so I can also render as video (Animation, millions of colours etc etc).

Yes, that does seem strange. I hope you can at least compile the images in another program.

BTW, I forgot to mention the most compelling reason to render image sequences from Moho: it allows you to make changes to shorter frame ranges of your animation without having to re-render the whole darn thing.

This potentially saves you a lot of time because with a movie file, you pretty much need to render the whole animation from start to finish, even if your change only affects a few frames. (Unless you want to deal with a bunch of 'patch' clips in your editor, which can get really messy.)

And with movie file renders, hopefully you don't crash during a long render, because you'll have to start over. With image sequences, you can just pick up the render from where the crash occurred and move forward. When compiling pre-rendered frames in post, a crash is less likely to occur because this is generally less CPU intensive and requires a lot less memory.

[synthsin75]

I don't even get the dialogue box. It takes me directly to 'Save'. No tweaking whatsoever is possible.

Try it with the default QuickTime Movie preset...don't select Animation codec here.