Punching holes in shapes won't sink into my head

[Reindeer]

There's one thing I cant' seem to ever learn. It's the one thing I need to go a look at tutorials every time, and it's not by far the most complicated: it's... making shapes with holes! I just can't memorise the drill, there's something about the create shape procedure that eludes me and won't make an impression on my brain. This isn't really a 'how do I', I'm just wondering if I'm the only one out there with this particular learning block
EDIT: I can punch holes if I build the shape from scratch (with no fill or stroke), like the tutorials show, but not in any other way.
Fore example, I was trying to punch a gear shape (from the Draw scripts) into a circle to obtain a spiked cart wheel and I couldn't get it to work.

[synthsin75]

Just try to remember, you can't "make holes in shapes" (existing shapes), you can only make "shapes with holes" (from scratch).

[Reindeer]

That's it, that's my conceptual (and practical) mistake. I keep on trying to tell ASP to create shapes where they already exist. Once they are created, I gather, there is no more re-creating (say, punching a square hole in a circle using two existing shapes), so to speak.
I have to keep in mind that "create shape" only works when you have a raw path that's been built point by point.

[hayasidist]

you can build shapes with holes using the standard "make shape" tool - turn off "auto fill / auto stroke" - draw a (say) rectangle; now draw a circle inside that; now select all 8 points and then "create shape".

or, if you did have auto fill/stroke on - you can "delete shape" -- this DOES NOT delete the path - IOW it leaves the points and the path(s) connecting them!

[Reindeer]

or, if you did have auto fill/stroke on - you can "delete shape" -- this DOES NOT delete the path - IOW it leaves the points and the path(s) connecting them!

The system of paths as potential shapes is quite peculiar to ASP, as far as I know. It works fine, actually, but I guess I just needed to punch the basic concept through my head. The great thing is that with the "delete shape" suggestion you just made I find I can achieve the cartwheel shape I mentioned in my opening comment. I created the circle, then created the gear, overlapped them, deleted them both with Delete Shape and re-created the combined shape as one piece with the spikes as a hole.
I think this excersise just made me understand it once and for all

[hayasidist]

glad to help!