Shapes on top of shapes with effects...

[SnowThief]

I want to draw the red shape, then draw something ON the red shape and then I want to add an effect to the red shape and everything on top of it.

The way I've done it here is to copy all the points in the red shape and individually weld each of them together with their copies. I can't figure out how to weld multiple points at the same time, so this takes a while for large shapes. This gives me two identical shapes on top of each other that allows me to draw anything I want onto the bottom one and add effects to the top one. The good thing about this is that if I decide to move a point of the red shape, I only have to move one point and the shape and effect is updated. If I want to add a point, I need to add a point to each shape and weld them together before I can move them as one point.

This works, but it feels very wrong and also gives some pretty big problems, like afterwards it seems to be impossible to create a shape around the red shape that has a hole for the red shape.

Is there a better way?

[slowtiger]

Yes: avoid constructions like that ...

You already found this not to be the best way to do things. Don't think in terms of "add this effect and that effect and that effect" because in a vector program this surely leads to problems. Think the other way round: which is the result you want? And then find a workflow that's good.

A common task would be to create a striped character with an overall shadow.You don't weld points for that. Instead you'd have one overall shape, and one layer with stripes. The overall shape will serve as mask. Then you can apply a shadow to the whole group. Nice and simple.

You can't just cut out a hole in AS. You'll need to create two closed curves, one inside the other, select both, and then create the shape. Clearly this step has to be done before any shading.

[SnowThief]

First of all, thank you for your reply.

You already found this not to be the best way to do things. Don't think in terms of "add this effect and that effect and that effect" because in a vector program this surely leads to problems. Think the other way round: which is the result you want? And then find a workflow that's good.

Yes, finding a good way of achieving what I want is exactly what I'm trying to do, and me asking here is part of that.

A common task would be to create a striped character with an overall shadow.You don't weld points for that. Instead you'd have one overall shape, and one layer with stripes. The overall shape will serve as mask. Then you can apply a shadow to the whole group. Nice and simple.

I thought of that approach myself, but it doesn't work when the effect defends on the shape, such as shading. Also, how would this work with a background?

You can't just cut out a hole in AS. You'll need to create two closed curves, one inside the other, select both, and then create the shape. Clearly this step has to be done before any shading.

Yes, I know how it works and it usually does, but it doesn't when you have two identical shapes on top of each other with welded points. However, it turns out my problems are solved if I just copy the shape and put it on top of the other one, without welding. Then everything is working and the only annoyances is that I can't click a point to select and move it, because it's actually two points, so I have to draw a box around them to select them both, and that I have to add two points to the shape and move them on top of each other when I need to add a point.

Thank you very much for your input and have a nice day.

[slowtiger]

OK, you found a way. Personally I would avoid anything like that, because I know that I'm going to change stuff later, and not being able to select a single point is a serious productivity killer - I do this for a living and have deadlines to meet.

You don't depend on the shading effect to do shadows! You can easily mask more than one layer with one mask, so you could have a shadow layer (set to multiply and some 30% opacity and have a blur).

I just tried it myself:
http://slowtiger.de/examples/ente.mov
http://slowtiger.de/examples/ente.anme.zip

[SnowThief]

First of all, this is the best help I've ever received on any forum and I've been on the Internet for almost 20 years. Thank you very much for taking the time to help people like this.

I do this for a living and have deadlines to meet.

I understand and agree completely. (However, it's a bit funny that you then go and draw a shadow manually to prove that I don't have to use the instant built-in shading effect.)

You can easily mask more than one layer with one mask, so you could have a shadow layer (set to multiply and some 30% opacity and have a blur).

I didn't even know you could use a mask like you do in your example. Thank you for showing me that. (I shouldn't have skipped that part of the manual.)

You're clearly an expert and I just wanted to know if there was a better way to do what I want to do and I now have a pretty good idea of what's possible and what's not.

(By the way, I'm a software developer, so I'm thinking about making a small script that draws a small box around the point you click when you hold down a certain button while clicking, so I can use it to instantly select multiple points in the same location. I will do this if I get tired of not being able to click on points to select them.)

Once again, thank you very much for your time and help. "A++, would ask again."

[rocky53204]

Great example file, thanks to slowtiger!

[slowtiger]

it's a bit funny that you then go and draw a shadow manually to prove

no, it's not, because

Great example file

explaining it once saves me from hours to explain it again and again to others ...