holding a placard part two

[exile]

Heyvern answered a lot of my questions in the thread "holding a placard".

I've uploaded a first crude attempt at youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8M_7WFLwn0

New questions have arisen out of the hours spent on these 10 seconds of animation - I notice that when trying to change key frames not everything is erased. I tried making the sign smaller with the layer scale tool to make it look like it's disappearing. Wasn't able to undo that completely by editing some key frames and erasing others.

Another problem is that after the mice run away, the program keeps trying to pull them back across the stage in a backwards motion, which of course I didn't want. How do I keep them where I put them until I want them to come back into the scene? I made a lot of key frames and pulled them out of the action so they aren't visible at the wrong time. After they run away, I flipped them horizontally so they could come back on stage headfirst. It looked fine, but when playing back the animation the weird unwanted motion occurred in the frames after they left the stage and before they were supposed to return.

To put this into one question: What is the best way to tweak an animation? I'm a long ways from being in control. Mostly, I used the bone movement tool and the move layer tool.

[heyvern]

There are "basics" to animating with ANY key frame based application like Anime Studio. I believe what you are having problems with are key frames and what you expect them to do.

I would need to see the actual file to know for sure what the issue is here. My guess, you either have keys you don't want or need, or possibly you put in keys with the incorrect expectation of what is suppose to happen.

I've seen this before with new users and people not familiar with key framing (not saying this is you just guessing).
Let's say for example on frame 100 you translate the layer. The layer will move from the first key (frame 0 or 1) to the new key on frame 100. If you want that layer to NOT move again until a later frame, you must key the SAME LOCATION again later in the time line to make the layer "stick" or stay in place.

If you want a layer or object to move, stop, move again, you need 4 key frames, the start key position, the new location moving key, the "hold" key (duplicate of the previous key), then a new location move key. It is the two keys "in the middle", that hold the animation. Two identical keys that determine how long the animation doesn't change.

(you could also use the "hold" key interpolation. I don't like that because it looks "wierd". The movement stops COMPLETELY and in real life things don't just "freeze". I like using a regular key frame for holds so I can put in subtle slight movement during the hold so it doesn't look so stiff)

Like I said, just guessing about what is causing your problems. If I could see the file with the keys then I would know for sure and can help you better.


-vern

[drumlug13]

Another problem is that after the mice run away, the program keeps trying to pull them back across the stage in a backwards motion, which of course I didn't want. How do I keep them where I put them until I want them to come back into the scene?

You need to use a "Hold Key" to keep something in place. Say you have your character in 3 positions during your animation. Positions A, B and C.
-You have the mice in position A (the start of the animation) with a keyframe on your time line.
-You move the mice to position B (off screen @ :03) and add another keyframe on your timeline.
-Later in your animation, I'm assuming you want the mice to return to position C (back on the screen @ :09) but you want them to "hold" at position B?

Basically what you would do is add another key frame at position B at around :07 to tell your mice not to move between :03 and :07. It's called a "Hold Key". What I usually do is copy the keyframes at :03 and then paste them at :07 on your timeline.

I notice that when trying to change key frames not everything is erased. I tried making the sign smaller with the layer scale tool to make it look like it's disappearing. Wasn't able to undo that completely by editing some key frames and erasing others.

I'm not sure if the manual is clear on this. I remember struggling with understanding the timeline too. You have a row of keyframes on a gray line. That shows your keyframes for the whole shape that you are working with. But when you have a sinlge point or a group of points selected, that's when you see the keyframes pop up on the red timeline.

[drumlug13]

Yeah what he said. I guess Vern can type faster than me. He can probably explain the red and gray timelines a little better too.

By the way ..... Super happy to see Vern back on the forum

[heyvern]

Someone said my name 3 times while looking in a mirror with the lights out so I had to come back.

On the topic of the "selected only" red channel and the "All items" gray channel, I never considered that at all as a cause of trouble. I assumed there was some layer animation going on and the selected/not selected channels wouldn't apply.

But yes, the two channel types display could cause some issues regarding deleting or changing key values.

-vern

[exile]

Thanks for the responses, really great to have this forum - "beginner having problems all over the place" is the right assumption. I posted the file, you have permission to laugh out loud about the clumsy animation, unnecessary layers and key frames.

http://www.singadream.com/forumfriends.htm

I'm slowly catching on to something that comes up often here: the manual doesn't explain the tricky stuff too well. I can't figure out what the sequencer is for - it looks nice to have the layers on the time line, but what for?

If you would like to revise the file and send it to me directly, send a PM and I can give you my regular e-mail address. But I don't mind if changes are made available for others in the forum to view.

[heyvern]

No laughing here. We were ALL at the same point you are at one time. You have to make mistakes to learn anything.

Unfortunately at this time I can't actually... uh... return you a fixed file because I suddenly realized I don't have... er... uh... version "8" of Anime Studio running on my mac because I upgraded to Mountain Lion over the weekend and haven't installed the fixed version yet. I can walk you through this though I hope.

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looked at your file and the 2 "Victor" mice layers have a whole bunch of layer translation keys that aren't needed. You can delete most or all of these (between frame 84 and 213). This is what you refer to as the backwards motion correct? You don't need all of those extra keys when the two mice go off screen.

Anyway, what you need to do is remove the LAYER TRANSLATION keys between frames 84 and 213 of those two mice layers. On frame 213 you have the flip horizontal key for the layers and this is fine but the main issue is where the center point of the layer is located (see explanation below). After deleting the keys I mentioned above, go to frame 212, select the key frame for layer translation on frame 84, and copy and paste this key to frame 212.

Now go to frame 213 where the "Flipping" happens. Translate the mouse layer up to where you want it to be just before it starts to appear on screen. You want it just off screen as it is now.

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Here's the situation and something to always remember when setting up characters or group layers. The CENTER POINT of that layer is important. That is the origin for any rotation or flipping of layers. The layer center point for your mouse bone layer is ahead and below the head of the mouse. Because of this when you flip the layer to have it walk back on screen he "gets in the way". He flips and is now on screen when you don't him to be. If the layer origin was "centered" on the character setting this up would probably be a little easier.

If the origin was centered, then when the mouse was translated OFFSCREEEN and flipped, he would be in the same spot and you could just translate him up to the right spot to walk back on screen. Because he is offcenter, you need that extra key on frame 212 to get him out of the way and THEN flip and move him.

<sigh> hard to explain. Hope this makes sense.

I wont't get into the sign part of this. It could be that my forst video solution may be a bit over your head at this time. I can try to do a much simpler video or provide a file when I get v8 running again.

-vern

[exile]

Thanks Vern and Drumlug, the unnecessary layer keys are out of there, copy and paste worked like a top. Now the "Victor" mice are much better behaved. They got their name because they are based on quadrupeds in Victor Paredes' webinar, at least what I understood of it, so now he has mice named in his honor whether he wants them or not.

This scene is practice, my wife has drawn some more artistic characters I'm tracing and of course there will be music and lyrics which will dictate the timing. At this rate I should be finished by 2015 or thereabouts. So there will be time to center the characters differently, although I'm not quite sure what you mean with the centering. You don't mean the place on the screen where the character is drawn and first assembled, you mean the positioning of the bones within the character?

I noticed Victor didn't bother to spread out the layers before putting in the bones as the manual recommends - does it make a difference?

Can you open a Windows anme file with a Mac?

Anyway, I'm off to a running start thanks to several people in this forum. I appreciate all your trouble.

[heyvern]

The center of a layer is indicated by the pale "pink" cross in all layers. It is this origin point that defines the axis or origin of all transformations of a layer (rotation, scale, flipping etc).

The layer center point can easily be changed using the Layer Origin tool (plus sign icon under Layers in the tool palette). The layer origin is not an animated property. If you change it on ANY frame it changes on ALL frames and can change the origin of any layer translations or other animated properties.

Changing the layer origin to recenter the mouse bone layers MAY change the layer translation animation locations. Since you don't have a lot of keys you could do this and just modify those keys or you can simply leave it as it is since it works and the layer center point isn't having a bad effect. Just remember if you wanted to say, spin the mouse layer around with rotation, or scale it, it will scale in it's current configuration, from the origin which is in front and below the head of the mouse.

What I try to do as much as possible is to keep everything centered on the layer during character creation. This can make life much easier when you get to the animation stage. This means when you create a new vector layer and put it inside a bone layer, make sure the layer is NOT translated at all (0, 0 layer translation), and when drawing make an effort to keep things in the center of the layer. For "symetrical" characters this is VERY HELPFUL, since it allows for copy/flipping points.

p.s. I can open Anime Studio 8 files no problem I just can't save them for you to use.

-vern

[exile]

So that's what those cross-hairs are for! Very helpful - I wondered why layer rotating was so cock-eyed I couldn't use it.

I've found some helpful stuff in this tutorial which walks you through creating a complex character, the part on how to use the tools for shapes and styles was a completely new area for me. http://anime.smithmicro.com/tutorials/t ... acters.pdf All newbies take note.

Once again, thanks especially to Vern for all the help.