Render Problem

[Yosemite Sam]

Hey everyone,

So I've run into an issue that I just can't find a work around for (after days of trial and error).

I export animations from AS then import them into Sony Vegas for editing. I then render them from Vegas and upload them to Youtube. I've tried every export combination from AS, and many render formats from Vegas, but once it's uploaded to Youtube, there's always an issue. Either the resolution/quality is crap or the frame rate is jerky/inconsistent.

I've even tried using Windows Movie Maker, but no luck.

Of course I can upload AS exports directly to YouTube and they look great, but I can't seem to find a way to run it through and editing program without everything going haywire.

Maybe it's a codec problem as I have Potplayer and VLC, as well as additional codecs, installed on my system for various video playback. Could these be interfering with AS and SV?

I'm exhausted trying to figure it out, so I'm just going to post the file here and if anyone can play with it and find a way to export it, run it through a video editing render, then upload it to youtube so it plays properly that would be greatly appreciated. It's ASP8.

Thanks

https://www.dropbox.com/s/12v95pl0w80h6 ... rtExt.anme

[slowtiger]

First check youtube's own help page about recommended resolutions (dimension in px), framerates, and codecs. Then set your Vegas export settings accordingly.

[Yosemite Sam]

Slowtiger,

Thank you for the response. I have already looked over what Youtube prefers concerning format/codec, etc. But I'm still having no luck. I did my best to match what youtube is asking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube#Quality_and_codecs

But no luck as of yet.

[Yosemite Sam]

Been trying every combination conceivable, but still can't get a quality image when running AS exported file through Sony Vegas, then uploading to Youtube. Hopefully someone can help me out. If Sony Vegas has compatibility issues with AS then I am willing to try another editing software.

Begging, pleading for an answer.

[slowtiger]

First: youtube doesn't immediately show the HD result on its page once you've uploaded your file. Allow some hours, maybe a day before checking. Anything you see right after uploading will be of crappy quality because it's just the result of a very quick rpcessing-.

Second: What are your settings exactly?

[Yosemite Sam]

Yeah, The videos from a few days ago are still bad.

I've tried dozens of settings. If I export from AS then upload to Youtube it looks great. It's when I render through Sony Vegas the problem occurs.

The resolution decreases, and the frame rate becomes choppy on pans/zooms.

Maybe it's Sony Vegas that is the problem. I even tried exporting from AS as .png sequence and it still looks bad.

What editing software do you use, Slowtiger?

Do you have examples that you've rendered through an editing program that looked good that you posted on Youtube?

[slowtiger]

Since I know of several professionals who use Sony Vegas for all their projects and none of them reported this problem, I must assume that you do something seriously wrong: import settings, export settings, whatever.

You should go to a Sony Vegas forum and ask there, since I don't use it.

[Yosemite Sam]

Thanks, I'll look into that. I just figured it may be a combination of AS and Vegas not being compatible, codec-wise or something.

I know that sbtamu has mentioned in the past that he uses Sony Vegas. Perhaps I'll PM him.

[sbtamu]

Every one of my HD uploads to Youtube are done this way.

I export from Anime Studio as AVI uncompressed.
I import to Sony Vegas and then set the preferences to match the size and frame rate.

I render from Sony Vegas as WMV 11.

This video here is done with these settings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFw2x6akaBg

[Yosemite Sam]

Hi Sbtamu,

Thanks for the response. I rendered the file as uncompressed AVI (1080p) 24 fps. Then ran it through Vegas with WMV V11 at 4.8 Mbps HD 720-24p Video, manually changing the frame rate to 24 as there was only the preset option for 23.976.

This is what I got. Degrades resolution and choppiness when panning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4w98Mkg ... e=youtu.be

Here is the same file uploaded directly to Youtube. It was a QT/Animation codec. Looks much better, but also has choppiness during pan/motion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvqTSSbTJA

[sbtamu]

I see the choppy and it should not be there with either settings. I will try it at 1080 and see if i get the same results.

[sbtamu]

Hmmm I am getting some choppy stuff when I do 1080 also. Maybe back it down to 720 until you can contact Sony about it.

Here is a sample (chose because it had camera pan) that is choppy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4TlWHsN ... e=youtu.be

[Yosemite Sam]

Sbtamu,

I'm getting choppy pans no matter what combination I use. I've Rendered close to a hundred clips to Youtube and it's always the same result. It's either a problem with Youtube (most of us render in 24fps and Youtube apparently runs at 30 fps), or it's a problem with Anime Studio. It's a shame, as I'm now going to have to eliminate a ton of scenes in my project that use camera movements.

I mean, even when I upload AS animations directly to Youtube I still get choppiness in pans. I even tried rendering files at 30 fps, but nothing improved.

[slowtiger]

From seeing the results I'd say: stick with it, this is TV quality already. I see the very same stuttering even in high profile TV productions when there's a pan. But most other people don't even seem to notice.

If you're mapping a 24 fps project on a 30 fps project you must expect some visible effect, it is unavoidable, and it happens in both directions. And since you happen to use artwork with very thin vertical black lines, the effect gets so much more visible.

You can only work around the effect by several ways:
1. use a much slower pan speed
2. use a much faster pan speed
3. use motion blur in pans
4. use thicker lines with a less sharp edge
5. decrease contrast between lines and colour

None of this is really satisfying, but we have to live with it as long as there's no world wide standard for fps.

I suspect the problem even gets worse with that preset in Vegas only allowing for 30 fps instead of 24 fps. Maybe you should perform a test with a scene in AS once rendered as 30, once as 25, and once as 24 fps, all imported into Vegas and rendered once as 30 fps and once as 24 fps. I expect quite different results. (Choose a scene which suffers really strongly.)

[Yosemite Sam]

Slowtiger,

You bring up some very good points. Thanks for taking the time to write that post. I will experiment with many of the ideas you have proposed.

The normal 24fps film cadence look is fine with me. It's the occasional big stutters that I dislike. I noticed when I watch the videos on Youtube it only happens when you go fullscreen. Sbtamu had the same problem with the sample he posted above. You should take a look at it. The choppiness in his sample is completely unacceptable for presentation.

It has to be a Youtube issue, at least partially. I wonder if Youtube converts 24fps to an actual 30 fps, or if it's converted to 29.976.

I'll keep testing things out, and thanks again for all your input and ideas.