Layer Target Point Script Idea

[DK]

Hi.
Is there a way to target a point with a Lua scrpt? The idea would be to be able to attach a Group or Layer to a particular point and follow it wherever it moves.

Cheers
D.K

[GCharb]

I have no idea, but I like the idea of such a script!

[jonbo]

Hey Dk, I think it should be possible but I'm not sure. The reason I think this is because you can use the follow path tool to assign a group layer to a path that is composed of a single point and using layer translate on that point you can have the group follow it. So it seems there should be a way to script this. Of course I could be wrong.

[DK]

Reason for this....
recently I have had the privilege of working with an ex Disney animator on a project. A lot of his animation was done as animated elements similar to the way Hanna Barbera used to work, ie, static body layer and animated head layer cell placed over the top.

Talking to Genete and a few others I have been thinking of an easier way to combine both hand drawn animation and traditional animation together in AS. To do this we need to free the main character from bones so we can use our imagination of movement to work with the character again, yet we still need to utilize the power of computer tweening to save drawing all frames b hand.

It may be possible to use hand drawn elements and combine them wth simple vector shapes. If we could target a point this could be possible.

What I am seeing in AS is a LOT of wonderfull ways of animating but nothing is really pulling all these things together.

I'll throw it open here to ideas?

Cheers
D.K

[DK]

I notice there is also Video tracking in AS....so if Lua can track a Pixel surely a point is possible?

D.K

[DK]

http://www.polliefillers.com.au/forum/hand.mov

Heres a proof of concept mov using bones to animate a vector arm with a traditional drawn Image sequence of a basic hand holding a sword attached to the end. (Switch Layer binded to a bone)

Imagine If we could track image sequences like this to points in a character rather than have our arm limited to the x,y axes that bones operate in.

You could possibly start the animation process with a point skeleton like this. Then bind the traditional layers to the required points.






D.K

[Víctor Paredes]

I'm not understanding the idea. Do you want a skeleton made with points instead bones? If I'm right, it's not similar to what you can do with scaled and rotated bones?
I think I'm losing something.

Hey Dk, I think it should be possible but I'm not sure. The reason I think this is because you can use the follow path tool to assign a group layer to a path that is composed of a single point and using layer translate on that point you can have the group follow it. So it seems there should be a way to script this. Of course I could be wrong.

I think it's a fantastic idea!
DK, You could attach groups to a path. Let's say you have 3 groups, first one you assign to the path in 0%, second in 50% and third in 100%. Then you only move the path.
Obviously it has some limitations, but the principle is pretty similar to what you are trying to do.

Edit: Jonbo, your idea can be done, but the group must be controlled for paths with at least two points. If I'm not wrong, you can't have one alone in AS (but if we are lucky maybe this is a limitation of the drawing tools, not of the software itself).

[Víctor Paredes]

Here you have a little example of path in action
Anime file:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/54411/AS8/group ... 0path.anme

Swf file:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/54411/AS8/group ... 20path.swf

[DK]

Hi Selgin. Yes...it is possible to do this with bones but why is it not possible to do this with just points and not bother with drawing and sizing bones? I think it would be more flexible and easier to just use points and a script? Also, with bones you have to select certain tools to manipulate, move , rotate....with points it would be just moving. Remeber....this is a system to free the hand drawn animation imagination from bones.....you can use the point skeleton to also apply fundamental lines of movement in your traditional drawing.......just an idea but more appealing to the mind of the traditional hand drawn style.

D.K

[Víctor Paredes]

It sounds similar to Vern's Aim bone script. With that you construct an skeleton, but instead rotating and scaling it, you just translate the "aim bones" and the skeleton automatically adapts its rotation and scale.
viewtopic.php?t=7842

[DK]

More like this.



http://www.polliefillers.com.au/forum/pointhand.mov

Using switchlayer image sequences you can control the frames.

D.K

[Víctor Paredes]

I understand you. I just remembered hevern's script worked similarly.
Anyway, you can get this with follow path.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/54411/AS8/switc ... 0path.anme

[DK]

For the sake of this experiment I just created a pointskeleton from tiny bones with bone constraints locked at 0 to make it easier to move them around without accidentally rotating them.




Lets see what happens from here.

D.K

[Genete]

Hi Selgin. Yes...it is possible to do this with bones but why is it not possible to do this with just points and not bother with drawing and sizing bones? I think it would be more flexible and easier to just use points and a script? Also, with bones you have to select certain tools to manipulate, move , rotate....with points it would be just moving. Remeber....this is a system to free the hand drawn animation imagination from bones.....you can use the point skeleton to also apply fundamental lines of movement in your traditional drawing.......just an idea but more appealing to the mind of the traditional hand drawn style.

D.K

Hi DK,
when you first time asked me for the new workflow I didn't understand you fully. I think that the thing that you request here is slightly different.

To attach a layer to a point you can attach a layer to a two points path and collapse the path into a single point with the weld point option. That will have the same effect than attach a layer to a point. Later you can weld again the welded points to a middle or end point of other path. I think it will work but I've not tested it yet.

Same thing can be directly done with Synfig thanks to its parameter linking feature.

I hope it helps!
-G

[capricorn33]

Hi DK

I find this line of thinking very refreshing. You are asking for something that AS really isn't very good at producing yet - but I don't see why this kind of feature addition would be very difficult to achieve for the developers? Technically speaking I think it might actually be quite simple! But there is much power behind the idea and is definietly worth further exploring I think.

I saw that you started a similar discussion at the AF forum... and in that thread funksmaname posted an answer with a link to one of onionskinnings animations at his youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/onionskinin ... StlxpavjCc
also with a construction demo
http://www.youtube.com/user/onionskinin ... J9e7prXnuA

He is not doing it the way you are suggesting of course, he is actually using bones to bind all the points in his model, but I think it's a very good example of what kind of stylistic effect you can get when you are "free from bones".





AND NOW, A LITTLE CHANGE OF SUBJECT
(too lazy to start a new thread)

But - I think it's somehow closely related to the idea of simplicity of model that this thread originally was about. So maybe it's not that much off topic after all...


Referring to a question that arised elsewhere on this forum (sorry, Gcharb, didn't mean to hijack your thread)
viewtopic.php?t=19693&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=11

The discussion was on classical fbf animation style with AS and whether there is any idea in using bones when you go in that direction....

My skeleton still uses AS bones but the way they are used are a little different. I don't use bones to animate a character, only to plan out the motion I want to use. The skeleton is based on lines of movement but it is very flexible at shoulders and hips where the bones can be translated along the X axis if needed for walks etc. The head is a traditional split quarter view that uses switch layer interpolation for smoothness. I find the skeleton is non binding when used as a motion proxy to rotoscope a FBF character in AS.

http://www.polliefillers.com.au/forum/skelboybackup.swf
http://www.polliefillers.com.au/forum/run.swf

DK,
Do you use this simplified stickfigure model as a type of animatic planning tool then? Do you actually animate it more or less fully before you start point animating on the real model then? "Fully" meaning doing thorough posing, timing and spacing, nailing it down before you go to points?

I'd LOVE to see some production examples of this technnique, if you wouldn't mind sharing?
Right now I'm in the process of investigating alternative workflows for AS, with professional use in mind, and it would be most interesting to see how you go about it when you plan out your fbf shots.



Just as a conclusion, I can definitely see your point here with the whole idea of the development of a "pointskeleton".

"Just moving those (skeleton) points around" as opposed to "picking, rotating, translating and scaling bones"...

The idea is brilliant, and this feature could be a very good complement to the bone and point animation system that is the guts of the Anime Studio system.


cheers!