Well some OS debates have reared their ugly head lately, so I thought I'd attempt to coral them here.
I've never owned a Mac and know that I don't have the inclination to run Linux, but here's my view so far.
When I bought my laptop, I went with Windows solely for available software. Regardless of anything else, developers give priority to developing for the better selling platform.
With XP I ended up running into my fair share of "blue screens of death" crashes. I installed and regularly ran a registry cleaner, had good anti-virus protection. It got so bad that I finally restored my system its original factory setup. Since then, I've been very careful to always use the Windows Add/Remove Program for uninstalls, haven't run a single registry cleaner, and only have trouble when I overtax my sound card.
Any other trouble I have been able to find perfect solutions for.
So from personal experience, I'm inclined to think that in this war it is not so much the OSes as the user (or perhaps hardware). With that in mind, I'll be sticking with Windows for now, but I'd probably suggest anyone's grandmother to stick with Mac.
I assume that this is a good deal of the trouble people have had with Vista.
OS debates
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synthsin75
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etherpictures
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I'll trow my hat into the ring, although I can see this thread going down in flames. I'll keep my arguments to workstations only, not server. 
My personal experience. I started with apple IIe (I think I was about 5 years old). Had a mac classic, all the way up till OS6. I come from the hometown of IBM, and we had a mac, that was loyalty, die hard loyalty.
Then we got a 386 with Dos on it. Then Pc's all the way up till a Pentium system.
Macs did have a better graphics quality at the time, and there were some real hardware differences.
I had the opportunity to direct/edit a demo for a music video I had some cash, so I went out and bought, yup a blue Mac G3 with OS9. I was able to trick it out to turn off all non essential services and what not. Sooo sweet, It only cost me about $2,500(USD). What a deal. So easy to use, I had not touched one in years and it all came back.
I ended up giving it away, and got a Pc for myself. You know why? The entire time I had a mac, I was cursing my head off that I couldn't do anything else besides make movies and photo shop.
Why did I just waste time typing out that whole story? Well to get to the point, On a pc, I've never said, "I need a mac to do that." On a mac, I've always needed a pc. Ok, there is ONE thing that I can not do on a pc that can be done on a mac. I can not make a podcast that has a slideshow built into it.
I also use Linux. Guess what I use it for? I run multiple copies of VM ware to run windows xp virtually.
I got a brand new mac powerbook for a co-worker. Guess what, she needs to run VMware to run internet explorer to access a state run web site with active-X or asp in it.
Now mac is awsome with hardware. it detects just about everything. The mac mouse is amazing, and the notebooks have dual touch mouse pads!
Mac would be good to do art type work too, like AS.
Linux, is great too. It is really promising. I run into hardware issues though. Making it hard to use when things like WPA2 does not work with your wireless Ethernet card. ((On a Dell netbook that came with Ubuntu on it))
Vista, never used it personaly, but hear it's good, after the fixes.
XP is solid, and the part I really care about is that it works great in a network situation. It can run just about any serious "art" program.
(oh, last thing about the new mac powerbooks. Mac rep lent me one for two weeks to try out. I was going to keep it. I could at least dual boot it. I took it home, sat next to my wife and pressed the giant sized mouse pad. She said it "clicked" to loud and I better not keep it, or else.)
*disclaimer, I am an MCSE so maybe I'm biased.
My personal experience. I started with apple IIe (I think I was about 5 years old). Had a mac classic, all the way up till OS6. I come from the hometown of IBM, and we had a mac, that was loyalty, die hard loyalty.
Then we got a 386 with Dos on it. Then Pc's all the way up till a Pentium system.
Macs did have a better graphics quality at the time, and there were some real hardware differences.
I had the opportunity to direct/edit a demo for a music video I had some cash, so I went out and bought, yup a blue Mac G3 with OS9. I was able to trick it out to turn off all non essential services and what not. Sooo sweet, It only cost me about $2,500(USD). What a deal. So easy to use, I had not touched one in years and it all came back.
I ended up giving it away, and got a Pc for myself. You know why? The entire time I had a mac, I was cursing my head off that I couldn't do anything else besides make movies and photo shop.
Why did I just waste time typing out that whole story? Well to get to the point, On a pc, I've never said, "I need a mac to do that." On a mac, I've always needed a pc. Ok, there is ONE thing that I can not do on a pc that can be done on a mac. I can not make a podcast that has a slideshow built into it.
I also use Linux. Guess what I use it for? I run multiple copies of VM ware to run windows xp virtually.
I got a brand new mac powerbook for a co-worker. Guess what, she needs to run VMware to run internet explorer to access a state run web site with active-X or asp in it.
Now mac is awsome with hardware. it detects just about everything. The mac mouse is amazing, and the notebooks have dual touch mouse pads!
Mac would be good to do art type work too, like AS.
Linux, is great too. It is really promising. I run into hardware issues though. Making it hard to use when things like WPA2 does not work with your wireless Ethernet card. ((On a Dell netbook that came with Ubuntu on it))
Vista, never used it personaly, but hear it's good, after the fixes.
XP is solid, and the part I really care about is that it works great in a network situation. It can run just about any serious "art" program.
(oh, last thing about the new mac powerbooks. Mac rep lent me one for two weeks to try out. I was going to keep it. I could at least dual boot it. I took it home, sat next to my wife and pressed the giant sized mouse pad. She said it "clicked" to loud and I better not keep it, or else.)
*disclaimer, I am an MCSE so maybe I'm biased.
I do think Macs are beautiful and robust, well crafted hardware, I also think the OS is just as robust and well honed.
This is my honest opinion and without sarcasm or frivolity.
I just thought I'd get that out of the way before I mention any slight criticism, I know that can send devotees into a mouth foaming fit.
This is not their fault, ardent Mac users are subjected to a subtle, soothing and mesmerising barrage of brain-cleaning by subliminal messages hidden in those slick start-up sounds and snazzy graphics.
Unfortunately Macs have a tendency to just refuse to cooperate on on some tasks and the user (unless limited to defined specific tasks) is left with that familiar awkward look as they mutter:
"Oh it won't do that", followed by the qualification...
"It's because of Microsoft" ... that's my favourite bit.
"We'll have to use your pc." ... and that's where I feel genuine empathy, poor souls, it must cut like a knife to utter those words.
Anyway I know I've been a bit cheeky so to make up for it, I can help out by showing any Mac noobs how to open a jpeg or read a DVD on their Mac-airs
And yes, I deserve everything I get for what I have just said.
Oh I almost forgot, Vista, regardless of the propaganda spread by the izombies, works fine, it is stable and well supported, but it is NOT fool proof so the problem it has is when people who should be on Macs try to use PCs.
Suffer in your jocks....
This is my honest opinion and without sarcasm or frivolity.
I just thought I'd get that out of the way before I mention any slight criticism, I know that can send devotees into a mouth foaming fit.
This is not their fault, ardent Mac users are subjected to a subtle, soothing and mesmerising barrage of brain-cleaning by subliminal messages hidden in those slick start-up sounds and snazzy graphics.
Unfortunately Macs have a tendency to just refuse to cooperate on on some tasks and the user (unless limited to defined specific tasks) is left with that familiar awkward look as they mutter:
"Oh it won't do that", followed by the qualification...
"It's because of Microsoft" ... that's my favourite bit.
"We'll have to use your pc." ... and that's where I feel genuine empathy, poor souls, it must cut like a knife to utter those words.
Anyway I know I've been a bit cheeky so to make up for it, I can help out by showing any Mac noobs how to open a jpeg or read a DVD on their Mac-airs
And yes, I deserve everything I get for what I have just said.
Oh I almost forgot, Vista, regardless of the propaganda spread by the izombies, works fine, it is stable and well supported, but it is NOT fool proof so the problem it has is when people who should be on Macs try to use PCs.
Suffer in your jocks....
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TheChewanater
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:25 am
I use Windows XP for running Windows only programs or programs I only have the Windows version of (AS, Wax, WMM...) a Mac for iPhone programming, and Linux for everything else.
I have Ubuntu Studio, and I must say, I like it much better than either of the others. The program compatibility is great with Wine or Virtual Machines, and it has much cooler eye candy, if you have a good graphics card. It's completely customizable, and most programs you can get for free. Plus, Ubuntu Studio comes with tons of programs like Blender, Synfig, GIMP, Inkscape, Audacity, and others already installed.
As for Windows, has anyone tried Windows 7? It's neat, I used to have it on the computer I now use for Ubuntu Sudio, but a little glitchy. I've actually never had any problem with it running with the aero theme, dispite my computer barely having the recommended memory of 1 GiB. I haven't used Vista (besides reloading peoples' Vistas with XP), but I hear it takes really long to start up and there are problems connecting to the internet.
Mac "review" now:
I hate those abominations that Mac users call "mouses". One button!?
I have Ubuntu Studio, and I must say, I like it much better than either of the others. The program compatibility is great with Wine or Virtual Machines, and it has much cooler eye candy, if you have a good graphics card. It's completely customizable, and most programs you can get for free. Plus, Ubuntu Studio comes with tons of programs like Blender, Synfig, GIMP, Inkscape, Audacity, and others already installed.
As for Windows, has anyone tried Windows 7? It's neat, I used to have it on the computer I now use for Ubuntu Sudio, but a little glitchy. I've actually never had any problem with it running with the aero theme, dispite my computer barely having the recommended memory of 1 GiB. I haven't used Vista (besides reloading peoples' Vistas with XP), but I hear it takes really long to start up and there are problems connecting to the internet.
Mac "review" now:
I hate those abominations that Mac users call "mouses". One button!?
I never had a mac.
I have loaded up versions of Linux and have one on a duel boot Alien Ware computer with two drives.
I have quite a few XP machines. Xp is the best OS for being small and tight. I got an old laptop, so old that it has only a nine gig hard drive. Linux wouldn't load, unless I put a tiny version with no features. Most of the version of Linux are starting or as just as over bloated as Vista. XP has Issues, one of my biggest gripes is that the update system uses your unused bandwidth when your on the internet. Unlike Linux that ask and tells you what the update was. Millions of XP ET's, are dialing home, even when they don't need to, clogging the internet.
I have one Vista computer. I was the beta tester. I went into a store expediting a XP64 OS computer and they were all gone. Vista was the the next OS. I figure it was just another update of XP and XP64 combing the two OS's into one. WRONG. Once home it was like slow but progressing hate. First thing was the factory setting. I'm not blind, yet the big useless icons had to go. Next was defender, took a few hours to figure on how to shut it off. Only one of my computers get access to the internet. So its total unnecessary.
The fist program wouldn't run on Vista that I installed. It was 'The Movies' The next program was Magic Movie 10. every thing worked but the program wouldn't recognize the two DVD drives. Then Carara would only render single pictures but no video.
Almost a year later and getting service pack 1 fixed Movie 10 and Carara
But three months ago I bought a program that says it Vista ready but it's on one of my XP computer because it won't run on the Vista machine.
I have a DVD player on the Vista machine that when you click on stop sometime it stops in a second other times it takes 15 seconds. I find myself beating on the mouse a lot. Its not the only program that take long times to respond to mice clicks.
Currently Vista is 1000 times better than those first installs. A quick search of the internet and you can find people still having real problems with it. 95, 98 and XP never had the amount of issues that Vista has. Vista has 6 versions where XP has only 3 home, pro and 64. So if I want to get the full use out of my duel core 64 bit machine I have to pony up another 250, thanks M$ but I'll pass.
Dale
I have loaded up versions of Linux and have one on a duel boot Alien Ware computer with two drives.
I have quite a few XP machines. Xp is the best OS for being small and tight. I got an old laptop, so old that it has only a nine gig hard drive. Linux wouldn't load, unless I put a tiny version with no features. Most of the version of Linux are starting or as just as over bloated as Vista. XP has Issues, one of my biggest gripes is that the update system uses your unused bandwidth when your on the internet. Unlike Linux that ask and tells you what the update was. Millions of XP ET's, are dialing home, even when they don't need to, clogging the internet.
I have one Vista computer. I was the beta tester. I went into a store expediting a XP64 OS computer and they were all gone. Vista was the the next OS. I figure it was just another update of XP and XP64 combing the two OS's into one. WRONG. Once home it was like slow but progressing hate. First thing was the factory setting. I'm not blind, yet the big useless icons had to go. Next was defender, took a few hours to figure on how to shut it off. Only one of my computers get access to the internet. So its total unnecessary.
The fist program wouldn't run on Vista that I installed. It was 'The Movies' The next program was Magic Movie 10. every thing worked but the program wouldn't recognize the two DVD drives. Then Carara would only render single pictures but no video.
Almost a year later and getting service pack 1 fixed Movie 10 and Carara
But three months ago I bought a program that says it Vista ready but it's on one of my XP computer because it won't run on the Vista machine.
I have a DVD player on the Vista machine that when you click on stop sometime it stops in a second other times it takes 15 seconds. I find myself beating on the mouse a lot. Its not the only program that take long times to respond to mice clicks.
Currently Vista is 1000 times better than those first installs. A quick search of the internet and you can find people still having real problems with it. 95, 98 and XP never had the amount of issues that Vista has. Vista has 6 versions where XP has only 3 home, pro and 64. So if I want to get the full use out of my duel core 64 bit machine I have to pony up another 250, thanks M$ but I'll pass.
Dale
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TheChewanater
- Posts: 134
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As far as I know, almost any program that runs on XP runs on Vista by setting the compatibility mode, but you need like a GiB more memory because Vista's aero theme and system resources hog up your memory. Or could it be that it doesn't run in 64 bit mode?dueyftw wrote: But three months ago I bought a program that says it Vista ready but it's on one of my XP computer because it won't run on the Vista machine.
Trust me I tried. It works on XP and not on Vista. The Vista has 3gig of memory, the XP only has 2. Vista give no errors expect to tell me it stop working and is trying to find a solution. And I can't go to 64 bit because I only have a 32 bit OS.dueyftw wrote:
But three months ago I bought a program that says it Vista ready but it's on one of my XP computer because it won't run on the Vista machine.
As far as I know, almost any program that runs on XP runs on Vista by setting the compatibility mode, but you need like a GiB more memory because Vista's aero theme and system resources hog up your memory. Or could it be that it doesn't run in 64 bit mode?
Dale
Funny, I have the opposite, some great software from the nineties (painter 3D) that wouldn't run in XP even in compatibility mode but runs better than it ever did on Vista even on the tablet pc.
I also found the internet and network features to be a no brainer for me and I am notoriously incompetent with that stuff.
BTW You can run any theme you wish on windows so just forget those discussions.
I do think though any edition of windows should not be a rushed purchase, always wait for the peanuts to be picked out especially if using any audio/visual creation apps.
Anyway we can all start talking about windows 7 soon.
I also found the internet and network features to be a no brainer for me and I am notoriously incompetent with that stuff.
BTW You can run any theme you wish on windows so just forget those discussions.
I do think though any edition of windows should not be a rushed purchase, always wait for the peanuts to be picked out especially if using any audio/visual creation apps.
Anyway we can all start talking about windows 7 soon.
Wes,
Boy, I sure hate to even enter this discussion, but I do want to say one thing specifically about your talk about viruses.
I am very careful as well -- not only do I use the usual protections (installed virus programs, no opening email attachments, etc.) but I only install software on a test bed machine that is isolated from the network before it goes into production. In more than two decades of using tons (and I mean tons) of software I've yet to get a virus this way but continue to be cautious.
However... on my primary machine where I do a lot of script writing it's very convenient to have a web browser open in one monitor (triple monitor setup) so I can look up things (it's hard to believe, but most of the things in my script are actually based on facts. I know -- truth is funny). I use Firefox precisely because it is more immune to problems than IE. I have McAfee site adviser running in it. Typically I type in a search term in Google and open up five or six sites in other tabs (as long as they are "approved" by McAfee).
I did this the other day and somehow hit a site that, just visiting it (and I have popups, etc. turned off) not only installed a virus but completely destroyed my machine (well, the data :>). Not McAfee nor Malware tech staff was able to reconstruct it.
As savvy as I thought I was, I didn't think this was possible -- but it is. So simply surfing even with the best protection in the world caused me a problem. Now, I was backed up so no loss of any data, but it did cause me to have to reformat the drive and take two days reinstalling all my apps (keys and codes are such a PITA -- they only keep out honest folks anyway. I miss the good old days of no copy protection).
Naturally my Mac friends (( have two) all laughed and said -- "we don't get viruses" to which I replied the famous Willy Sutton line (when asked why he robbed banks he said "because that's where the money is"). Macs don't get attacked because, basically, no one owns one (the percentages are arguable, but industry experts believe that Mac owners are still only about 1.5% of the market, which in any other industry would be the end of that company). No one wants to waste their time attacking nothing, I guess <bg>.
Boy, I sure hate to even enter this discussion, but I do want to say one thing specifically about your talk about viruses.
I am very careful as well -- not only do I use the usual protections (installed virus programs, no opening email attachments, etc.) but I only install software on a test bed machine that is isolated from the network before it goes into production. In more than two decades of using tons (and I mean tons) of software I've yet to get a virus this way but continue to be cautious.
However... on my primary machine where I do a lot of script writing it's very convenient to have a web browser open in one monitor (triple monitor setup) so I can look up things (it's hard to believe, but most of the things in my script are actually based on facts. I know -- truth is funny). I use Firefox precisely because it is more immune to problems than IE. I have McAfee site adviser running in it. Typically I type in a search term in Google and open up five or six sites in other tabs (as long as they are "approved" by McAfee).
I did this the other day and somehow hit a site that, just visiting it (and I have popups, etc. turned off) not only installed a virus but completely destroyed my machine (well, the data :>). Not McAfee nor Malware tech staff was able to reconstruct it.
As savvy as I thought I was, I didn't think this was possible -- but it is. So simply surfing even with the best protection in the world caused me a problem. Now, I was backed up so no loss of any data, but it did cause me to have to reformat the drive and take two days reinstalling all my apps (keys and codes are such a PITA -- they only keep out honest folks anyway. I miss the good old days of no copy protection).
Naturally my Mac friends (( have two) all laughed and said -- "we don't get viruses" to which I replied the famous Willy Sutton line (when asked why he robbed banks he said "because that's where the money is"). Macs don't get attacked because, basically, no one owns one (the percentages are arguable, but industry experts believe that Mac owners are still only about 1.5% of the market, which in any other industry would be the end of that company). No one wants to waste their time attacking nothing, I guess <bg>.
I use Mac and a PC with XP.
My PC does not go on the internet except to view this forum and one other forum and to view web sites I know are "safe". I do not recieve or send email from the PC. I do not use the PC to do "Google searches" (I read that 30-40% of google searches link to "nasty" bad evil web sites).
So I like my PC. It's fast but only because my Mac is so old. A new Mac would be fast. I can't afford a new Mac... I can't afford a new PC either. The PC I use now was given to me FREE by a friend who MUST HAVE THE LATEST FASTEST PC all the time. So... I got something lying about that was faster than my last PC which died after I sucked all the life out of it over a period of 5 years. Interesting... my Mac is way older than that PC and it's still going strong with no signs of any problems.
Which do I prefer?
Lately I am using the PC more due to the fact that it's a newer faster machine. Has nothing to do with it being a "PC". My mac is OLD and very slow... but people don't "give away" Macs. They hold on to them forever because they keep working. My last PC... first the floppy died. Then the CD drive... then the DVD drive. Then the power supply died. I replaced all of those things. Had to use a tin snips on the back panel to fit in a power supply because I couldn't find any that actually fit on my PC. Then the video card died. Then the system went bad...
My Mac? Uh... er... nothing went bad. I have an even older mac next to it (pushing ten years old) works like a charm. Neither of those suffered more than a flakey corrupted OS due to the power going out unexpectedly. A new UPS fixed that.
This whole argument... discussion about PC vs Mac is the same as the old argument Ford vs Chevy. It's a PREFERENCE. There is no "better" system. It's what ever experience we had at some early stage of computer use where we BONDED or IMPRINTED on a particular computer platform or OS.
My first computer was and Apple II. Command line interface. No mouse (you could get a joy stick for it to use like a mouse). It had two big floppy disk drives (back when "floppy" was an actual physical description. The disks could "bend"). That was my FIRST experience with computers. I bought a music creation program and painstakingly wrote music one note at a time.
So I bonded with Apple. When I worked at an advertising agency they bought Macs. Then a bunch of us HAD to have a Mac (there were no PC's that ran graphics software.... PC's could barely do ANYTHING creative AT ALL back then. It was Mac or NOTHING). Once again... that relationship with Apple and Macintosh was further reinforced.
I think the reason many looooong time Mac users have an "attitude" is because we went through that long period of being put down and ridiculed by PC users. I put up with it for 10 years at least. It was mean spirited rolling of eyes and name calling... seriously. Mean stuff.
My parents went to the store to buy a Mac... the guy told them not to buy that stupid toy. He told them Apple was going out of business and their computers weren't any good. Mac's were "Just toys". They aren't "real computers". They just smiled and went to another store to buy a Mac. That was 10 years ago at least.
That is the kind of stupid annoying stuff I've gotten from PC users for YEARS. No WONDER I became a "Mac Fan Boy". I never criticized PC users. I only learned to do that to defend my choice.
Mac... PC... Windows... Linux... it's all a CHOICE. A preference. There is no better system. They are all great and they all suck at the same time.
-vern
My PC does not go on the internet except to view this forum and one other forum and to view web sites I know are "safe". I do not recieve or send email from the PC. I do not use the PC to do "Google searches" (I read that 30-40% of google searches link to "nasty" bad evil web sites).
So I like my PC. It's fast but only because my Mac is so old. A new Mac would be fast. I can't afford a new Mac... I can't afford a new PC either. The PC I use now was given to me FREE by a friend who MUST HAVE THE LATEST FASTEST PC all the time. So... I got something lying about that was faster than my last PC which died after I sucked all the life out of it over a period of 5 years. Interesting... my Mac is way older than that PC and it's still going strong with no signs of any problems.
Which do I prefer?
Lately I am using the PC more due to the fact that it's a newer faster machine. Has nothing to do with it being a "PC". My mac is OLD and very slow... but people don't "give away" Macs. They hold on to them forever because they keep working. My last PC... first the floppy died. Then the CD drive... then the DVD drive. Then the power supply died. I replaced all of those things. Had to use a tin snips on the back panel to fit in a power supply because I couldn't find any that actually fit on my PC. Then the video card died. Then the system went bad...
My Mac? Uh... er... nothing went bad. I have an even older mac next to it (pushing ten years old) works like a charm. Neither of those suffered more than a flakey corrupted OS due to the power going out unexpectedly. A new UPS fixed that.
This whole argument... discussion about PC vs Mac is the same as the old argument Ford vs Chevy. It's a PREFERENCE. There is no "better" system. It's what ever experience we had at some early stage of computer use where we BONDED or IMPRINTED on a particular computer platform or OS.
My first computer was and Apple II. Command line interface. No mouse (you could get a joy stick for it to use like a mouse). It had two big floppy disk drives (back when "floppy" was an actual physical description. The disks could "bend"). That was my FIRST experience with computers. I bought a music creation program and painstakingly wrote music one note at a time.
So I bonded with Apple. When I worked at an advertising agency they bought Macs. Then a bunch of us HAD to have a Mac (there were no PC's that ran graphics software.... PC's could barely do ANYTHING creative AT ALL back then. It was Mac or NOTHING). Once again... that relationship with Apple and Macintosh was further reinforced.
I think the reason many looooong time Mac users have an "attitude" is because we went through that long period of being put down and ridiculed by PC users. I put up with it for 10 years at least. It was mean spirited rolling of eyes and name calling... seriously. Mean stuff.
My parents went to the store to buy a Mac... the guy told them not to buy that stupid toy. He told them Apple was going out of business and their computers weren't any good. Mac's were "Just toys". They aren't "real computers". They just smiled and went to another store to buy a Mac. That was 10 years ago at least.
That is the kind of stupid annoying stuff I've gotten from PC users for YEARS. No WONDER I became a "Mac Fan Boy". I never criticized PC users. I only learned to do that to defend my choice.
Mac... PC... Windows... Linux... it's all a CHOICE. A preference. There is no better system. They are all great and they all suck at the same time.
-vern
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synthsin75
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Overall I do think that it's mostly a matter of tech skill. Those who can do anything with a computer should get Linux, those who have some degree of tech savvy a PC, and those with little or none a Mac.
Now that's a very broad generalization, but if I were to make an honest suggestion of OS, that's how I'd determine it. I was learning desktop publishing when Mac was the standard, and I remember when Adobe was not on PC. Luckily Corel was around by that time.
From what I've read, from Mac users, it seems like they need it to just work. I mean no disrespect to the tech savvy Mac users, but most don't seem to know how to roll up their sleeves and straighten out their OS. They so rarely have to hone those skills.
Of course PC users have the unreasonable expectation of never having to "tinker" with their OS. Thus my OS suggestions based on tech skill.
Now that's a very broad generalization, but if I were to make an honest suggestion of OS, that's how I'd determine it. I was learning desktop publishing when Mac was the standard, and I remember when Adobe was not on PC. Luckily Corel was around by that time.
From what I've read, from Mac users, it seems like they need it to just work. I mean no disrespect to the tech savvy Mac users, but most don't seem to know how to roll up their sleeves and straighten out their OS. They so rarely have to hone those skills.
Of course PC users have the unreasonable expectation of never having to "tinker" with their OS. Thus my OS suggestions based on tech skill.
Wes,
I think your categorization is pretty on, except that there is another factor and that is software. Just like the WIlly Sutton line, sometimes you need to use something because that's where the software is.
I like Unix and would run Linux any day *except* that it won't run about 90% of what I would need it to run. There are a lot of nice apps for it if you don't need specialized software.
I really really like Apple hardware. I was sort of a Mac bigot myself until I got an iPod, then an Airport express (then two) then an iPhone and finally Apple TV (essentially a mini-Mac) and realized just how nice Apple hardware is. It's very seductive and when it works it's fantastic. But it's also fantastically overpriced (the only way they can stay in business -- see comment about market share) and, once again, most of the software I've needed to run over the years was not available for it.
Nowadays with my dependence on AS I'd probably be okay with a Mac IF I could afford it -- but I can't. For the price of ANY Mac (laptop or desktop) I can buy at least two or three PCs. Vern -- I can promise you that three PCs will last longer than one Mac <g>.
Lately one of my best friends who has a Macbook or whatever they are called has needed my help in setting up a network and I've discovered that Mac tries to hide so much stuff from the typical user that it's a PITA to actually do or set anything. I suppose the Mac folks would say -- "Hey, you don't NEED to do anything like that" but it was certainly not true during the network setup. I had to do something in six or eight steps that I could do in two steps on my PC. And, in the end, my little netbook outperformed the Macbook easily (so much so that my friend is now thinking of "switching" -- hey, maybe he could be in those switch commercials. Oh, no, that's the other way around, isn't it?
It's all good -- I'm just glad I've lived long enough to see all this (and to see version 6 of AS -- hey, that's still iffy, but I think I can make it another month or two :>)
I think your categorization is pretty on, except that there is another factor and that is software. Just like the WIlly Sutton line, sometimes you need to use something because that's where the software is.
I like Unix and would run Linux any day *except* that it won't run about 90% of what I would need it to run. There are a lot of nice apps for it if you don't need specialized software.
I really really like Apple hardware. I was sort of a Mac bigot myself until I got an iPod, then an Airport express (then two) then an iPhone and finally Apple TV (essentially a mini-Mac) and realized just how nice Apple hardware is. It's very seductive and when it works it's fantastic. But it's also fantastically overpriced (the only way they can stay in business -- see comment about market share) and, once again, most of the software I've needed to run over the years was not available for it.
Nowadays with my dependence on AS I'd probably be okay with a Mac IF I could afford it -- but I can't. For the price of ANY Mac (laptop or desktop) I can buy at least two or three PCs. Vern -- I can promise you that three PCs will last longer than one Mac <g>.
Lately one of my best friends who has a Macbook or whatever they are called has needed my help in setting up a network and I've discovered that Mac tries to hide so much stuff from the typical user that it's a PITA to actually do or set anything. I suppose the Mac folks would say -- "Hey, you don't NEED to do anything like that" but it was certainly not true during the network setup. I had to do something in six or eight steps that I could do in two steps on my PC. And, in the end, my little netbook outperformed the Macbook easily (so much so that my friend is now thinking of "switching" -- hey, maybe he could be in those switch commercials. Oh, no, that's the other way around, isn't it?
It's all good -- I'm just glad I've lived long enough to see all this (and to see version 6 of AS -- hey, that's still iffy, but I think I can make it another month or two :>)
Oooo, I forgot to mention something to Vern -- I've *never* had a PC crap out on me. Now, I have replaced power supplies (and drives) but I consider that the same as a battery on a car -- do you junk your car when your battery dies? And drives I replace all the time as I upgrade storage (I now have a legitimate 5TBs of disc space online not even counting my RAID backups).
What usually happens is that I buy a new PC after two or three years -- they are just that cheap. So I have, for example, six PCs on my network right now, of varying ages, and they all work great, and they are all fast as heck because I got rid of the older ones (I always buy the fastest that is available -- they really are dirt cheap when you don't need a new monitor, which I usually don't). And I have a test bed PC sitting in the corner that I can play with if I am unsure about software -- just installed that new Aquarium 3.0 Screen Saver and it looks awesome, really, particularly on a widescreen monitor.
What usually happens is that I buy a new PC after two or three years -- they are just that cheap. So I have, for example, six PCs on my network right now, of varying ages, and they all work great, and they are all fast as heck because I got rid of the older ones (I always buy the fastest that is available -- they really are dirt cheap when you don't need a new monitor, which I usually don't). And I have a test bed PC sitting in the corner that I can play with if I am unsure about software -- just installed that new Aquarium 3.0 Screen Saver and it looks awesome, really, particularly on a widescreen monitor.
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synthsin75
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Yeah Mike, available software was my main consideration when buying this XP laptop. I thought I'd be getting Corel Draw, even though I didn't. At the time I had no idea about much of anything like Wine or whatever they use to run PC apps.
I have gotten frustrated enough to investigate Mac, but was never sold. I had assumed that in order to make them work better you'd need to bury and hide many system settings so no one could foul it up. That's actually what I don't like about what I've seen of Vista and Windows 7. They seem to be slowly following that trend.
I don't think I could stand a computer developed around the idea that I'm too stupid to touch it sensitive widdle settings. Of course I regularly mess around with my registry without backing it up. Some day that'll probably bite me.
I have gotten frustrated enough to investigate Mac, but was never sold. I had assumed that in order to make them work better you'd need to bury and hide many system settings so no one could foul it up. That's actually what I don't like about what I've seen of Vista and Windows 7. They seem to be slowly following that trend.
I don't think I could stand a computer developed around the idea that I'm too stupid to touch it sensitive widdle settings. Of course I regularly mess around with my registry without backing it up. Some day that'll probably bite me.