We Mac Users

clayton77 · Post by **clayton77** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:17 am

I'm wondering if anyone else has felt the way I do...

All of the documentation that came with ASP, i.e., the "help.html" user manual that comes on the cd-rom, as well as the Official Guide by Kelly Murdock seems to cater towards the Windows based PC crowd. The shortcut keys mentioned in all the documentation refer to the windows keyboard--for example, Alt and Ctrl vs Option and Command. All of the screenshots are also from (the lovely) Vista. Now this may seem like nick-picking, but it does get very annoying having to translate Alt into Option and Ctrl into Command in my head several times a minute while reading the manual and the guide and trying to remember everything. All of the other manuals I've read that are from cross-platform programs (which is what ASP purports to be) refer to both the windows and mac shortcuts (at the very least they put the mac shortcuts in parenthesis every time a shortcut is mentioned that differs on the mac and pc).
Now if ASP wants to cater strictly to hobbyists, then let them just go after the PC market. But digital creative pros and filmmakers use Mac. So if they want to market ASP as a "professional" program, it would be wise of them to not act as if Mac users don't exist. It's just a matter of courtesy more than anything else. Yes I can still use the program, (even though more often than not it crashes when i try to export--a problem with the program and not with Mac since I use several pro video apps that put way more of a strain on my mac, and have never had a problem using any of them) but it is very annoying being constantly reminded that the makers of the program and writers of the literature seem to think the Mac, as well as the Mac version of ASP, don't exist.
I hope the "powers that be" wise up and start taking Mac users more seriously, since after all...we are paying customers, too. And money is what talks, after all is said and done.

jahnocli · Post by **jahnocli** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:41 pm

Only hobbyists use PCs? Where did you get that statistic?

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:24 pm

And who says all pros use Macs? Granted I'm a biased Windows user, but I debated switching OS many times. Every time I look into it it seems that Windows has more (and possibly better) software developement. Developers always seem to be either slow or lack-luster about their support of Mac, even if they are cross-platfrom.

IMO, as long as there are more windows users, you can't really fault them too much. I'd just be glad it's cross-platform at all.

viewtopic.php?t=10914&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

This kind of problem is exactly why I steer clear of Mac. I've seen this kind of OS version/processor debate in too many places.

clayton77 · Post by **clayton77** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:48 pm

I didn't start this discussion to start a Mac vs PC debate. There are plenty of other forums on the internet for that purpose, I'm sure. The point is that the people who produce ASP and it's literature need to acknowledge all three platforms, since they make versions of their software for all three-Mac, Linux, and Windows. If they want to make their software a Windows-only package, then great, more power to them and to all the Microsoft PC enthusiasts out there. But if they are going to go after the Mac user market as well, then Mac users are also their customers and they need to treat them just as they would treat PC users. But it seems to me that they put less effort into the Mac version, because it has more bugs than the PC version, as is obvious if you read the Bug Reports forums on this site.

So if the developers of the software are going to ignore the Mac version of ASP and let it be a program of sub-standard quality which is almost impossible to use, then they should give me my money back, and stop claiming their software is Mac compatible, thereby tricking other Mac users into buying it. We have yet to see if they will

Please, if you want to argue about the platform war immemorial, go find a forum with the heading "Mac vs PC." But if you want to talk about SmithMicro's stance on putting a real effort into their Mac version of ASP, then please talk up.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:44 am

Welcome to the Mac world. Get use to it. I use Mac. Mac's have a much smaller market share. The fact that Anime Studio even EXISTS on the Mac is FANTASTIC. There is a LINUX version for goodness sakes. You usually only see that with open source software.

There would probably be an argument for the developers to drop Mac and Linux versions and focus just on one version... so let's not rock the boat. I've been reading Windows manuals for Mac software for YEARS.

They know mac people exist... trust me. The mac version of AS isn't delivered by unicorns from an enchanted forest. Someone has to actually work on it and compile it etc etc.

It can be a tiny bit annoying if it seems like someone doesn't care about mac people when writing manuals... but it's a relatively small thing compared to everything else.

I'm just glad a program like this is available for the mac. I'm not going to complain about the manual.

-vern

clayton77 · Post by **clayton77** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:15 am

I guess I come from a different perspective because I come from the world of film and video, where Mac is king. I've been using Final Cut Studio as well as Adobe CS software for years and never ran into the attitude that Mac is some outsider fringe thing. Mac is the standard in the world of film and video. Since animation is a subset of film, I assumed that it would be the same deal with ASP. But then again, comparing Final Cut Pro with ASP is like comparing a Steven Spielberg film with the Flintstones. It seems like ASP is designed more with Flash videos like Homestar Runner in mind than actual animated films like Princess Mononoke. Nevertheless, it seems to have a lot of potential, that's why I decided to buy it.

That being said, I good news for us Mac guys. I downloaded and installed the fix posted by Lost Marble on the bug report forum (see viewtopic.php?t=10914 ), and so far I haven't had one crash. This is definitely a step in the right direction. Cheers.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:59 am

The "myth" that "all" creative work is done on Macs is not true any longer.

The big "creative" type applications have been available for both platforms for a long time. It is true that in the past, most creative agencies predominantly used the Mac but that is no longer the case. As a matter of fact now even Linux is becoming more of a player in the creative tools.

I have no facts to back this up but having said that maybe the Mac still is in the majority for a lot of creative professionals... but I don't think it's an astronomical lead... and I don't think it has as much to do with the tools as the OS. Many creative types like myself... might be... older

... and had their first creative computer experiences with macs and still prefer that OS over Windows.

I can remember way back in the 90's when just a few key programs (Photoshop, QuarkExpress, Illustrator) that were mac only up to that point became available on Windows. One of the print shops I worked with switched over to "cheaper" PC's. Up till then ALL the creative software was on the Mac... Windows couldn't do postscript.

p.s. I remember feeling kind of sad when these Mac only applications became available for Windows. I don't know why exactly. It was like my secret club had been invaded by some weird gang of strangers.

-vern

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:18 am

I never had any other machines than Macs, although I had to work on Linux, Windows, NeXTstep, and even BeOS occasionally. For me a Mac OS is "the way a computer should work", although I still hate OS X in comparison to OS 9.

That said: most cross platform software is in a way a stranger on any machine. Adobe can afford to avoid this, they build a Mac and a PC flavoured version of anything. Mike couldn't, as well as TVPAint (formerly Mirage). So some software, like AS, uses its own kind of windows and buttons and everything to an extent that it isn't really a "Mac application". I remember how strange it felt the first time I opened Moho.

So the additional thinking needed to translate cmd key into apple key is no big thing, really.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:23 pm

Ha! I just remembered a short time I worked for a photographer years ago on a Unix box. He was a pretty dang good photographer and one of the first to use digital camera backs (It took several minutes to take one digital photograph not even close to the resolution available today and it cost $20,000 for the equipment. He only used it for stills of objects... no portraits. The people couldn't sit perfectly still long enough).

They had this really expensive Unix photo retouching/manipulation software. I forget the name. It was used primarily due to the fact that at the time there wasn't ANY computer fast enough or powerful enough except Unix to open and edit the huge gigantic high resolution scans from transparency film that he was shooting for his clients.

The top of the line Mac with Photoshop would have choked and died trying to edit one of those scans... trust me... I tried it one night. Moved one of the buggers to the Mac

The Unix program was horrible to use. Took me ages to get use to it. We mostly cleaned dust off of scans (that is why I quit. BORING!). Dang software cost a fortune... like $7000 or $10000. Yearly upgrades were a couple of thousand dollars. I hated the Unix platform. Had to learn all those funky command line thingies to move GIGANTIC directories back and forth different drives to make space and do back ups.

At the time I predicted it wouldn't be long before that was legacy software. Within a year or two after leaving that job the macs and PCs caught up to those performance levels and now... shoot... now I routinely create Photoshop files bigger than those I was working with on that Unix box.

-vern

chucky · Post by **chucky** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:47 pm

Haaaaaaaahaaahaahaaahaa

I'm using a tablet pc in a hotel right now.On a story boarding job interstate.
If mac made one, not a mod, I would own it.
I do sympathise that you don't have full tutorials but you could load windows too....I don't mean to offend ...sorry.
You know I don't care about windows or leopard they all crash and choke .
mac hardware is great but this idea that people have about pros only use mac,,, fnaaarf fafff bahhh nyukyukyuk.

jahnocli · Post by **jahnocli** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:03 pm

chucky wrote:...this idea that people have about pros only use mac,,, fnaaarf fafff bahhh nyukyukyuk...

Why, I couldn't have put it better myself...