Setting the Origin back in the Working Area

[jeff740x]

The origin (blue cross) is well outside the working area (blue box). Also, a bone layer with many sublayers is also well outside the working area. And, when I start a new switch layer, it is well outside the box.

I must have gotten in this pickle by experimenting with camera pan and workspace pan and not realizing that I was changing the origin.

I have been experimenting with translating points, translating layers, setting the origin, etc. With all the different layers impacted, I have done so many experimental trial and errors I am losing count.

If the origin is outside the working area, is there a straightforward way to set it back - for a layer? for the whole project?

If I get the origin properly placed, I hope I can then translate the points - or perhaps whole layers, and place my work back in the working area.

Once I have repaired the project, I will approach panning the camera and/or panning the workspace with more caution.

[jonbo]

you can hit the reset on the camera. click on the pan/tilt tool and under the dropdown menus at the top you can reset camera or enter a value for pan or tilt.

[slowtiger]

Select the Origin tool (0) and press "reset" - this restores the original position, but doesn't necessarily bring it back into project area, as this is affected by layer translating (1).

[jeff740x]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Good News: For a switch layer with several vector sub-layers, I went through a sequence of translate the layer to move the drawing and origin in the working area, then select points and translate points to move the points to a better relationship to the origin, and then doing the Origin Reset. Along with the vector sublayers, I needed to also reset the origin on the switch layer. So... this is much improved.

Bad News: For a bone layer with many vector sublayers and a switch sublayer (this is a character) I made many attempts, but had unexpected results. Then I found another problem that I need to resolve before I can fix the origin. It is a scale problem that moves the origin dramatically.

Here is what I see regarding relative size when I am using the scale tool. If the working area (blue box) is 1/4 inch by 1/2 inch, then the red Scale Layer (2) box would be about the size of a postage stamp (larger and surrounding the blue box) and the character is about the size of the palm of your hand and is to the left of the red box. I don't think I can make progress on the origin, while these scales are out of whack.

Any hints on this one - I will use as starters as I try to puzzle it out.

Thanks.

[heyvern]

First off that scale bounding box is useless to determine the scale relationships. The bounding box doesn't always match the layer bounding area. Also the layer scale is based on the origin of the layer thus that "offset".

If you need to scale or move vectors/points DO NOT use the LAYER scale or LAYER translate tools unless you absolutely need to and is integral to the animation. When moving and translating points for positioning you should use the translate points tool.

Use the layer tools when you need to move or translate or rotate a LAYER as a "unit". For example animating an object moving or scaling or rotating using POINT tools is linear and you can't go back and adjust that movement. That is when you would use the layer tools. Spinning a vector layer of a box for example won't work using point rotation tool, you need to rotate the layer.

The key is to keep related layers (like a character for example) at the same scale and translation. Don't even bother with the origin point at all unless you know you need to move it.

For example suppose you had an arm you wanted to rotate by rotating the layer. You would obviously want to put the origin point at the spot you want the arm to rotate. BUT if you use BONES for rotation the origin of the layer makes NO DIFFERENCE.

If you have a bone layer with a lot of vector layers for a character you really should have all those layers the same scale and origin. It will make your life so much easier. If you need to scale or move the points that is fine, but if you have a CHARACTER in a bone layer then those layers should be the same size and origin.

I've noticed that some people will have arm layers and leg layers and a body layer etc, all scaled at different sizes to match proportions when they should be scaling the POINTS not the layers to adjust positions of vectors for a character. This does not necessarily apply to things like hands or the head that may be in another group or switch layer. That is an exception to this rule. However I STILL make sure those items are scaled to 100%. That is my little obsession. All layers for a character in a bone layer are always scaled 100%.

If you need to move an entire character or change the origins of a bunch of layers, do it to the group layer. For example if your origins are "outside the blue box" as you describe, don't translate individual layers to bring them back inside, translate ONE top layer that holds all the layers. Try to keep grouped layers "untouched" as much as you can.

When I say these are "rules" I mean they are MY PERSONAL RULES that I have learned to follow over the years. There is no rule book anywhere yet for this kind of thing.

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So now you are in the situation where you have layers at different origins and scale and everything is a mess.

The good news is you can set multiple selected layers origins and translations at one type time. Shift select all of the layers and set the origin to 0, 0. They will all move at once to the default 0,0 position. You can set the scale of each layer the same way.

Of course now you have to move and scale the POINTS of those vector layers individually if they aren't lined up properly. If you have done any bone offset on frame 0 this could make a mess of your file. If you have done layer translation animation this will probably be a mess as well.

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Without seeing the file and seeing exactly what you have done and what needs to be "fixed" it is hard to give you advice on what you should do.

My thought is to just bite the bullet and fix everything one layer at a time and redo any animation that might have been messed up. Set all the scale and origins to the default. Move the POINTS to align the layers. At least now you know how to start with creating new characters in the future to avoid this issue.

In conclusion
Try to avoid modifying translation and origins of individual layers that are "related" like in a character bone layer. Try to do those modifications to a single top group layer.

Use bones for rotating and moving layers rather than using the layer tools. This is MUCH easier to animate and COMPLETELY overrides layer origin issues ENTIRELY. Bones rotate layers based on the BONE origins not the layer.

I use bones for everything and hardly ever worry about the layer origins or translation.

-vern

[jeff740x]

Thanks for taking the time to provide all the advice.

One problem I don't have is the impact on the animation. So far, I just working on the character and haven't stated animating. Whatever changes I make will not harm any animation efforts - just drawing efforts.

Background: I got into this pickle trying to increase the size - so I would work more comfortably on smaller elements - like the eyes. I can't recall what tool(s) I used to expand the scale in order to draw more easily - but it certainly was not the proper method.

FYI: AS no longer likes the project - as i have now gotten a couple of "Quit Unexpectedly" events.

Finally - I will follow the advice and if I learn something of value - post another entry.

Thanks again.