Actions Get Distorted After Keyframes Are Set in Mainline

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:24 am

Um, now I'm thoroughly confused.

I loaded up some older files (and tried importing) and as long as I did check the "Animated Layers" order thingee things seem to work and I don't seem to be able to break them.

It's pretty late here and I'm playing tennis in the morning so I can't check on the original test I was doing (which was creating brand new actions with layer ordering -- that seemed to consistently fail) but a hallmark of a good tester is to know when they've reached their limits and I'm not thinking clearly now.

So -- Vern, just look at Greg's example and don't worry about what I wrote for now. I need to test this more completely in order to give a good report (one thing that IS clear -- that damn animated layers order checkmark ought to be on by default).

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:33 am

Yeah, new projects are more likely to have this trouble. Basically, if you're creating actions in v6 it can cause this trouble. Just loading old files is not a good test. Hint, hint

I wrote:Vern, do this:

1. start a new project
2. create one group layer with two vector layers inside it
3. create a shape on each (so you can see the layer sorting)
4. remember how they are currently sorted (this is important)
5. create a new action on the group layer and swap the vector layer order on frame one
6. return to main timeline

Now the layer order will be based on the one you set in the action even though you haven't even applied any action to the main timeline and only changed the layer order on frame one while editing the action.

Thanks Greg. That video helped me sort the cause of this problem out. When you set up that third action, with the layer ordering key, it changed the layer order of frame zero in the main timeline.

That's fairly serious when action editing is screwing with the main timeline. I, personally, don't plan on fielding the endless repetitions of that question we are bound to see. This will only make a feature that some already found hard to use more so.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:49 am

Okay guess what?

This is the SAME behavior in AS 5.6!!!!

So... apparently for more than a year or however long we've had animated layer order NO ONE HAS NOTICED THIS. Did any of you report this before? I have used layer order extensively since it came out. I never encountered it.

You guys never mentioned it before? You only notice this now? AS 5.6 does the EXACT SAME THING WITH LAYER ORDER KEYS. This is not a new thing, it's an obscure thing that just now popped up on the radar because you noticed it for the first time.

My goodness.

-vern

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:47 am

Vern,

Here's the deal -- while it's not a major issue, I think there is a definite "bug" in the behavior of layer sorting.

If you load in a file that uses layer sorting (has keys on the timeline for it) but do not change the group or bone layer to enable layer sorting, then it doesn't work. IOW, the behavior of a file changes simply because it's loaded into 6.0.

This was what threw me off -- all my old files stopped working. Now, I have four or five dozen I have to edit but that's not a huge deal, but it IS bad behavior to treat an old file differently than before.

At the very least a file with layer ordering keys set ought to have that group box checked by default (now, I still think that SHOULD be the default for all files, or at least an option to set it that way, but I can live without that if the loading of old files worked).

Suppose, for a moment, that three or four things behaved like this -- no bone rotation unless first enabled, layers ignored rotation and movement keys unless options checked, etc. You wouldn't think this reasonable, right? Because then old files look broken (and, indeed, are to some extent).

This is going to be just another support issue -- folks are going to say 6.0 is broken when it's not... exactly broken. Yes, we should all RTFM but if you point me to where it talks about layer ordering and this checkbox in the PDF manual I'll be properly chastised (I did a search on layer ordering and couldn't even find a mention of how it worked in 5.6).

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:22 pm

heyvern wrote:Okay guess what?

This is the SAME behavior in AS 5.6!!!!

Bullshit. Straight out and without reservations. I just tested it. Sure, 5.6 does have this as a redraw issue, but it easily corrects itself. Follow the damn steps in 6.0. DON'T ADD THE STEP OF APPLYING THE ACTION TO THE MAINLINE.

Before you add the action, the frame zero order has been changed and cannot be made to "redraw". Now once you add that action, it includes a frame zero key, storing the original order. But what if you decided not to use that action in a scene, or use it latter after already working with that altered layer order.

Do not ignore this shit. Follow the damn steps, to the letter.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:34 pm

Another tip that works around this easily. Just go to frame 0 of the action before going back to the main time line. Problem solved... gone... poof.

You guys think I'm denying this is a bug... that's not it at all. Thanks for pointing it out. All I'm saying is stop shouting "the sky is falling! The sky is falling!".... when it was only an acorn that hit your head.

Animated Layer Order in Actions

1. create new action
2. On frame 1 reorder layers
3. Go back to frame 0
4. Return to main time line

-vern

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:40 pm

By the way? that same thing? Is in AS 5.6 as well. Follow those steps in 5.6 the EXACT SAME THING happens.

Bug or not this issue has been around for a year and it's not been a problem for you or anyone else. Or at least no one has noticed it including myself.

-vern