Okay, I'm the first to admit I haven't approached this the way I should (that is, working my way through all the changes) so I'm pretty sure there is something obvious I'm missing but did layer ordering suddenly disappear or is there a different way of doing it in AS 6?
In the mainline on any frame other than 0 I change the layer orders (yes, they are in a group layer) and... nothing happens. No keys, no magical layer order thingee appears on the timeline, nada. Okay, I move to another frame and change the order -- again, nada.
(Note: this is quite apart from the actions bug -- there I CAN create a layer order key. It just happens not to do anything).
Since I'm sure this particular feature was tested in AS 6 it must be something I'm doing wrong -- but what? Can someone walk me through the steps to actually reorder layers in AS 6?
What I am doing wrong with layer ordering (AS 6 Pro Demo)
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
WTF?
So upon reading the manual (yeah, RTFM) I see this:
"Layers can be re-ordered at any time, although their order is not dynamic over time. That is, the layer ordering cannot change in the middle of an animation, for example to make one object appear to move in front of another object." (emphasis mine).
WTF? I *know* this can't be true, right? Mike didn't remove this useful feature, he couldn't have. That was the best feature (and, indeed, the whole point) of version 5.6. So what's going on that I missed?
"Layers can be re-ordered at any time, although their order is not dynamic over time. That is, the layer ordering cannot change in the middle of an animation, for example to make one object appear to move in front of another object." (emphasis mine).
WTF? I *know* this can't be true, right? Mike didn't remove this useful feature, he couldn't have. That was the best feature (and, indeed, the whole point) of version 5.6. So what's going on that I missed?
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synthsin75
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Much of the manual has still not been updated (even up to 5.6). That bit is from before the layer ordering feature. You do however have to check "animated layer ordering" in the depth sort tab of that immediate grouping layers settings. PITA.
There really should be an "animated layer ordering for new layers" preference checkbox.
There really should be an "animated layer ordering for new layers" preference checkbox.
Okay -- at least I know I'm not crazy (well, at least in this regard).
It doesn't solve the far greater bug of not being able to use layer ordering in actions (which, at this time, basically means I won't be upgrading) but perhaps the fix for Mike will be easier since he didn't completely remove layer ordering.
It doesn't solve the far greater bug of not being able to use layer ordering in actions (which, at this time, basically means I won't be upgrading) but perhaps the fix for Mike will be easier since he didn't completely remove layer ordering.
Oooo -- something else.
This layer ordering thing didn't work on an existing file -- IOW, even if you load in a file where you have layer ordering you will have to change your group layer options for it to work again. I DO see that as a bug -- if it's going to load in either a file or existing Anime Object that already has layer ordering then that option should be checkmarked (actually, let's face it, that really should be the default).
So reiterate, if AS 6 loads in a 5.6 file (and I'm pretty sure it can tell by the file what version it was created in) then it should turn on layer ordering by default for the group layers as that was the default behavior of 5.6. As it stands now, that file will now behave differently.
This layer ordering thing didn't work on an existing file -- IOW, even if you load in a file where you have layer ordering you will have to change your group layer options for it to work again. I DO see that as a bug -- if it's going to load in either a file or existing Anime Object that already has layer ordering then that option should be checkmarked (actually, let's face it, that really should be the default).
So reiterate, if AS 6 loads in a 5.6 file (and I'm pretty sure it can tell by the file what version it was created in) then it should turn on layer ordering by default for the group layers as that was the default behavior of 5.6. As it stands now, that file will now behave differently.
I tried several of my 5.6 files with layer ordering in the ASP6 demo and they all worked fine (ie. didn't have to change any settings). I wonder what is different in your files that they don't work...You have actions that do layer ordering? And they work without any changes in 6.0?
I'd be *extremely* skeptical of that. However, if true, it means the bug is far worse than I imagined (if it's only true under certain conditions, that is -- a bug is easier to correct if it's consistent).
All of my characters use layer ordering actions on frame 1 -- opening these or bringing them in as an object the action does not work until I change the group or bone layer to animate. There are no other keys or animations on the timeline -- only in actions.
I'd be *extremely* skeptical of that. However, if true, it means the bug is far worse than I imagined (if it's only true under certain conditions, that is -- a bug is easier to correct if it's consistent).
All of my characters use layer ordering actions on frame 1 -- opening these or bringing them in as an object the action does not work until I change the group or bone layer to animate. There are no other keys or animations on the timeline -- only in actions.
Ooops, I missed the part where you said they were in actions... 
I apologize, you are correct. I thought you were talking about layer ordering in the main time-line. I created a file in 5.6 with layer ordering in actions and 6.0 didn't turn on layer ordering.
That will teach me to post when I am half awake
I apologize, you are correct. I thought you were talking about layer ordering in the main time-line. I created a file in 5.6 with layer ordering in actions and 6.0 didn't turn on layer ordering.
That will teach me to post when I am half awake
The layer ordering check box is not turned on by default in AS 6 when opening 5.6 files with animated layer order. The keys are there though. There is no danger of losing the layer order keys as long as you turn on the check box.
As long as you don't change the layer order before you turn on that check box there is no problem. In fact if you never change the layer order it continues to work with that option off.
A simple "warning" would suffice but also having it "turn on" when opening the file would be better.
The same thing happened with "animated layer effects" in the layer settings. At first this would be turned off even when opening old files, erasing animated layer effects if they were present. This was changed in time. The layer ordering changes are probably MY fault because I wanted to "turn off" layer order. This check box had to be added in somewhere and I thought where Mike put it made perfect sense. This happened late in the game and I guess there wasn't time to change the default behavior when opening old files.
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It's not a freaking nightmare. If we all KNOW about this it's a piece of cake to update old files. Migrating to new versions of software WILL ALWAYS REQUIRE TWEAKING!!!!
I remember some years back spending HOURS AND HOURS fixing "old" Photoshop files for MANY MANY web sites when Adobe TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY CHANGED THE FONT RENDERING!!!!!
All of my text was SCREWED UP! The antialiasing was slightly different on fonts so exported gifs looked totally different. Instead of making changes to one or two images as needed I had to replace ALL OF THEM with the newer version of Photoshop so they would match.
That is Adobe... that big huge company with "20 programmers" and "tons of money".
-vern
As long as you don't change the layer order before you turn on that check box there is no problem. In fact if you never change the layer order it continues to work with that option off.
A simple "warning" would suffice but also having it "turn on" when opening the file would be better.
The same thing happened with "animated layer effects" in the layer settings. At first this would be turned off even when opening old files, erasing animated layer effects if they were present. This was changed in time. The layer ordering changes are probably MY fault because I wanted to "turn off" layer order. This check box had to be added in somewhere and I thought where Mike put it made perfect sense. This happened late in the game and I guess there wasn't time to change the default behavior when opening old files.
-----------
It's not a freaking nightmare. If we all KNOW about this it's a piece of cake to update old files. Migrating to new versions of software WILL ALWAYS REQUIRE TWEAKING!!!!
I remember some years back spending HOURS AND HOURS fixing "old" Photoshop files for MANY MANY web sites when Adobe TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY CHANGED THE FONT RENDERING!!!!!
All of my text was SCREWED UP! The antialiasing was slightly different on fonts so exported gifs looked totally different. Instead of making changes to one or two images as needed I had to replace ALL OF THEM with the newer version of Photoshop so they would match.
That is Adobe... that big huge company with "20 programmers" and "tons of money".
-vern
Fair enough -- except if I interpret you right, layer ordering got turned off by default (from being turned on by default) simply because you wanted it.
All well and good -- you have the ear and we don't. But most of us WANT layer ordering on by default. So I really think Mike should make this a preferences option in the next point release. That's my vote (yeah, I know, it only equals about 1/10 of yours, but perhaps others can chime in here :>)
All well and good -- you have the ear and we don't. But most of us WANT layer ordering on by default. So I really think Mike should make this a preferences option in the next point release. That's my vote (yeah, I know, it only equals about 1/10 of yours, but perhaps others can chime in here :>)
NO NO NO!
Turning OFF layer ordering WASN'T AN OPTION AT ALL! I offered to wash Mike's car I think... not sure. I might have offered to walk his dog for that one... either way I asked for the ability to turn off layer order so that BEFORE you need to animate layer order you don't have to constantly return to frame 0 just to rearrange things.
My GOD I know you guys would be bitching and moaning if you couldn't turn it off... sheesh.
-vern
Turning OFF layer ordering WASN'T AN OPTION AT ALL! I offered to wash Mike's car I think... not sure. I might have offered to walk his dog for that one... either way I asked for the ability to turn off layer order so that BEFORE you need to animate layer order you don't have to constantly return to frame 0 just to rearrange things.
My GOD I know you guys would be bitching and moaning if you couldn't turn it off... sheesh.
-vern
Yeah, but Vern -- you didn't just get the ability to turn it off... you got it turned off by default.
All I'm asking is there is a preference so we can have it ON by default. Leave your precious checkbox there but let us have it checked for new group and bone layers. Because you didn't just add something, you changed default behaviors.
(Hey, I'll paint his house -- well, I'll PAY to have someone paint it :>)
All I'm asking is there is a preference so we can have it ON by default. Leave your precious checkbox there but let us have it checked for new group and bone layers. Because you didn't just add something, you changed default behaviors.
(Hey, I'll paint his house -- well, I'll PAY to have someone paint it :>)