Scenes how to create them in AS?

donQabron · Post by **donQabron** » Tue May 19, 2009 3:27 pm

I know this isn't flash but a feature i used in flash was scenes.
Suppose I am creating a cartoon show but i haven't story boarded yet. In the mean time i have ideas i want to create and realize it before i decide where in the show i want to insert it.

Anime studio doesn't allow (i dont think) nested actions [one movie clip inside another movie clip]. which i used to do to with some actionscript to create a playlist of scenes that would eventually get exported to a total movie. So lets say I forgot to add an intro cartoon music video, no problem in flash just insert a scene before the first scene.

One idea i was flirting with: save a new anime studio document for every scene and export it as a .swf and use flash to play the .swf files in what ever order i choose.

if there is a better method out there, please share.

Post by **Víctor Paredes** » Tue May 19, 2009 4:04 pm

Anime Studio is not a software to create Flash files, it just has the feature of exporting to Flash. Personally, I never use it, I work for TV productions, so It's much better to export the videos as videos and use all the features that my scenes need. AS is designed to work for what it's designed: create animations.
Just like you say, most here use 1 file per scene, and then put all together on a video editor. If you come from Flash it's possible you miss the scenes feature, but when you are accustomed it doesn't hurt. It's just like the drawing tools. Many people feels frustrated that AS haven't the same drawing tools that Flash has, but, AS is a different software, you can't expect all things be as adobe's, fortunately. By the way, take a look to actions in AS pro, they work pretty well.
I come from using Corel Draw since version 4, it was pretty weird to adapt my drawing skills to AS, but now for me it's easier to draw in AS than Coreldraw, even when I have to design still images.

For animation AS is incredibly better than Flash, in my perspective. You have lua scripting, which needs a lot of improvement (and we hope it be packed in the version 6), but that even works very fine when you understand what can be done and what can't. For flash specific things, well, use Flash, don't ask AS transform in something different. AS needs a lot of improvements, I agree, but in its own way.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Tue May 19, 2009 4:17 pm

AS is an animation program. It is not a storyboard software, nor a video editor. It isn't meant to create finished films all in one go. It is just is a tool which is specialized in character animation.

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Tue May 19, 2009 4:45 pm

Yeah, your poll probably has little use for the majority of us here, who use AS for TV and feature animation, rather than for the web.

Saying that LUA is as good as actionscript is meaningless to me, since I don't need or even know what actionscript is. You might qualify it with another option "I don't use AS for Flash purposes" and then it would be worth voting in.

Post by **Víctor Paredes** » Tue May 19, 2009 4:50 pm

mkelley wrote:You might qualify it with another option "I don't use AS for Flash purposes" and then it would be worth voting in.

Yeah, I would vote for it too.

donQabron · Post by **donQabron** » Tue May 19, 2009 10:34 pm

hey Guys, I didn't think my pole would offend any1. I made a serious mistake in assuming that most people here do web developed cartoons. Apologies to all the TV developers (my work might make it to TV 1day too).

as per selgin's comment: "most here use 1 file per scene, and then put all together on a video editor. "

One of the things that turn me on to AS is that its a vector-based 2D animation software. why is that important? well for the web u have computer to computer technology. Vector to a computer is just mathematical equations that represent images that can be animated or programmed into a video game (you know in case the cartoon becomes popular and t-shirts revenue is not enough). it does this in a small and compact fashion (assuming you use simple points, lines, curves for your shapes) ideal for web streaming even when ur client has a slow connection [try doing that with netflix]. If i was to use a video editor to clip together my scenes, I will transform my vector files into raster video (not ideal for web or video games).

I am new to AS and "the official guide" to AS by Kelly Murdock didn't mention the norm for putting a complete production together.

now i understand that AS is merely a tool to aid me in my flash production

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Tue May 19, 2009 10:37 pm

Yeah, the poll is meaningless. Actionscript is primarily for web interaction. There are easy ways to do what you are asking directly in AS, but if you are hung on Flash, by all means use it for a workaround.

This is just another one of those "why isn't ASP like [insert favorite app here]."

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Wed May 20, 2009 1:12 am

The poll doesn't offend anyone donQabron. It's just that... a poll should have a good solid meaningful purpose. Posting a question like this good enough to get a discussion going and get feed back. Also there was another topic EXACTLY like this one. Sometimes searching for that topic like "Flash" or "SWF" etc might bring up things.

Flash is intended for online distribution and wicked fast downloads. Flash's roots are not the ease or power of it's animation tools, there have ALWAYS been better animation applications, but its fast downloads of animated content and Actionscript. Flash started out with almost no scripting. As the scripting become more complex it grew from that.

AS exports to swf because... well... AS is a vector application and Flash "is King" with vector animation on the web so it makes sense to add that in. As has been said AS is NOT a Flash replacement. It's an animation application that just happens to export some aspects to Flash if you "do it right". I am another one who doesn't use Flash for much. I have it but I don't like it. I prefer the expanded options of using raster format.

I would however like to see more robust lua in AS. Lua IS as powerful as Actionscript. I know this first hand. I've converted Actionscript to lua without loosing any functionality. It's a different language but anything you can do with Actionscript can be done with lua... and more because lua has a lot of "3D" built into it that Actionscript doesn't have.

The problem is that AS does not have as many interface elements exposed to lua so we can't create new "palettes" or menus, or sophisticated tools easily.

-vern

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Wed May 20, 2009 10:35 am

now i understand that AS is merely a tool to aid me in my flash production

Exactly. You can do things in AS which are impossible to do in Flash, and you can do character animation much faster than in Flash. However, if your final output is going to be an SWF file for a website, you still need Flash to put all things together, optimize file size, and maybe add interactivity.

However,

Suppose I am creating a cartoon show but i haven't story boarded yet

will seriously lead you into trouble. Nothing is so crucial as good planning when doing a web cartoon in Flash. I don't even speak in terms of story line, good timing, good editing ans so on. I just mention stuff like "don't import anything twice from AS to Flash" and "build up a library of symbols first". There are lots of finer points to consider when you do a web cartoon in SWF, where the main directive is "keep filesize SMALL".

chucky · Post by **chucky** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:24 am

Suppose I am creating a cartoon show but i haven't story boarded yet

Uh - Oh!

Listen to slowtiger ..... no boards is a recipe for disaster, unless of course you are already an absolute prodigy or using the live action technique of cinéma vérité.
With all the effort that goes into animation of all methods of storytelling, you would be well advised to board, then edit that into an animatic just to be sure.
Bonne chance.

dueyftw · Post by **dueyftw** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:35 am

I don't really like flash. I learned the hard way that Flash is NOT Anime Studio. If your going to output any AS file to Flash, you have to be very conscious of the size of your vectors files and layers. Stay away from variable line widths, and instead of 24fps try to use use 18 or 12fps. If you draw non moving layers in AS and import into Flash, import as a single layer, not movie. Something that looked good in AS can end up like real crap imported into Flash.

Dale

donQabron · Post by **donQabron** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:24 pm

The poll doesn't offend anyone donQabron. It's just that... a poll should have a good solid meaningful purpose.

I really regret putting that pole out there because it really got people here off topic. My original question "whats the best method to setup scenes in AS" of which there is no other similar topic posted: & is the topic we suppose to be talking about. between the pole and how i would go about it using flash (just as an example) led every1 to talk more about the stupid pole and how politically incorrect it was, rather than the issue i intended to have solved. for that I am really sorry. I am going to see if i can remove it. In the mean time:

There is alot that was given to me here so let me address some of the productive issues that really concern me; and is relevant to this forum:

There are easy ways to do what you are asking directly in AS, but if you are hung on Flash

synthsin75 rather than assuming that i am set on using flash. Please share "the easy ways" on how i can set scenes & change the order of scenes in AS.

"If your going to output any AS file to Flash, you have to be very conscious of the size of your vectors files and layers. ... Something that looked good in AS can end up like real crap imported into Flash."

I wasn't going to open the AS exported .swf files into flash to edit and republish them. AS should export ready to view clips. What i had in mind when i said create the swf files and use flash to play them: was to create a separate flash swf file that just contained actionscript in it to call the other AS exported .swf files to play one by one on the clients browser's flash player - in whatever order i choose. I've done this in the past (pre actionscript 3) but for a different reason. It was a bitch to setup.

It's an animation application that just happens to export some aspects to Flash if you "do it right".

I am sure you mentioned this because my intent is for web purposes. Now with my idea in mind is there a specific way to "do it right".

Stay away from variable line widths, and instead of 24fps try to use use 18 or 12fps.

are you saying that frame rates don't sinc well with the same setting in flash? if i produce something in AS @ a specific rate, i can't use the same settings in flash. Having different rates in two applications to produce one rate sounds like a nightmare. pardon my ignorance but what is "variable line widths" it sounds dynamic.

I would however like to see more robust lua in AS. Lua IS as powerful as Actionscript. I know this first hand. I've converted Actionscript to lua without loosing any functionality. It's a different language but anything you can do with Actionscript can be done with lua... and more because lua has a lot of "3D" built into it that Actionscript doesn't have.

Hey you just gave me an idea. i dunno Lua, but can i perhaps use lua to play my scenes in a playlist? If the answer is yes then I need good reference (preferably a free online tutorial or a wiki).

I learned the hard way that Flash is NOT Anime Studio.

Me2!

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Thu May 21, 2009 5:25 pm

can i perhaps use lua to play my scenes in a playlist?

No. The SWF format is designed to understand Actionscript only - that's why SWF content with scripting has to be done in Flash. Any Flash player only understands Actionscript.

if i produce something in AS @ a specific rate, i can't use the same settings in flash

Wrong, you could use any framerate in AS and Flash - but it is recommended that you don't use a high framerate, like 30 fps, in a project which will be shown on the web. To reduce file size, it is recommended to use a frame rate like 15 fps or 12 fps - easy to understand because the file will hold only half the number of frames.

I wasn't going to open the AS exported .swf files into flash to edit and republish them.

In this case you might end up with a result that doesn't meet your expectations. The best way to produce a small SWF for web is to do it in Flash - no matter in which program you created the animation, wether in AS or in Flash or whatever.

AS only uses some parts of the SWF definition, just enough to translate vector artwork into Flash. Flash is designed to do further treatment of assets, it can optimize each and every bit of the content of an SWF file. AS cannot do that.

AS should export ready to view clips.

Technically, it does. The SWF exported from AS will play in any browser with the Flash player plugin installed. However, it will not be an optimised file, and it will lack any interaction.

The whole problem boils down to the question if you have Flash or not. If you have it, it would be stupid not to use its special abilities. If you don't have Flash, you need to produce all your animation in AS in one file, which is a bit complicated to do, but can be done.

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:26 pm

http://www.lostmarble.com/moho/manual/flashtips.html

See this part of the user's manual for all the Flash dos and don'ts.

As far as scenes. Yes, it is best to create each scene in its own AS file for performance reasons. But AS can then be used to combine these in any order. There are a couple of options for this.

1. You can File>Import Anime Studio Object. As long as each scene is all in a single top group layer, you can then import each scene into a single file for rendering. You just need to make sure that only the current scene is visible, once again for performance reasons.

2. Oops, actually that may be it. I just realized that AS can't render movie image layers to SWF. Any other format, you could just combine the rendered scenes as image layers in a single render.

madrobot · Post by **madrobot** » Fri May 22, 2009 1:45 am

chucky wrote:
Suppose I am creating a cartoon show but i haven't story boarded yet
Uh - Oh!

Listen to slowtiger ..... no boards is a recipe for disaster, unless of course you are already an absolute prodigy or using the live action technique of cinéma vérité.
With all the effort that goes into animation of all methods of storytelling, you would be well advised to board, then edit that into an animatic just to be sure.
Bonne chance.

Just want to pitch in and 3rd that.

I just finished some animations, thought I could cut corners on the storyboarding and paid for it, then thought I could do without a thorough animatic and paid there too.

I've learnt from these mistakes, now board every tiny thing thoroughly, and then do a thorough animatic.

I'd encourage anyone to do the same, save yourself the heartache and wasted time which comes with learning this the hard way!