a problem with edges when there shouldnt be one!

mike_burges · Post by **mike_burges** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:16 pm

I am working on a short animated film and am using Anime Studio Pro 5.6 (Windows) for the bulk of the "cut out style" character animation .

Our method of working involves creating the largely silhouette character pieces in photoshop then using the anime studio script, exporting the layers to a file (as .png files) that can be easily opened in anime studio with the same layering etc. Once the files are in anime studio the different components of the character are assigned to bones to create an animatable hierarchy.

The problem comes when I export the animation as the images randomly gain white edges. I am using no layer or shape effects, just the straight .png images from photoshop (which have all been checked and cleaned up in photoshop to remove any hint of edging). I have tried exporting the animation with a series of settings (antialiasing,pre multiplied alphas, effects, and nothing at all) but am always left with the same result, white edges to the images.

As you can imagine for a character that is mainly silohuette this poses quite a problem so if you have any idea how to solve the problem it is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:01 pm

Since you said "any ideas" (as opposed to a specific approach) then let me advise you the absolute best way to work here is to bring your images in and trace them with vector tools.

Not only will you avoid any edge problems, it will be SO much easier to work with the vector shapes -- and as they are silhouettes I can't imagine why you'd want to work any other way.

It will take you a few days to get comfortable with the drawing tools, but after that it will be a breeze to do (trust me -- I've recreated far more difficult drawings from Illustrator files). And you will have a valuable skill for the next project.

Post by **Víctor Paredes** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:58 pm

I have worked many times with png in AS, but never have had any problem related to white edges. can you post an example to see what could be happening?

and, as mkelley says, it is much better and powerful to work using vectors instead images, I try to use this option every time I can, but however for some projects you only can work with images (I have worked, for example, with characters constructed with pieces of cloth and hair made with wheat, all scanned).

It is good to know the limitations of both methods. As images are less animatable than vectors, sometimes is just faster to draw images instead vectors for characters which don't need to move so wonderfully or for background elements.

evaluate what you really need, don't work more than this.

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:53 pm

Getting a clean alpha channel in a PNG can be tricky. The easiest way would be to create an empty layer and draw with black lines only (and the eraser). Switch off any BG layer so the checkerboard appears. Now "export for web" and choose PNG24 with transparency. PNGs created this way shouldn't show any white.

If you work from scanned images, you need to be very careful to remove any white edges. There's a trick to select all non-image areas, then apply black to just the edges of the selection. But if you already put that much work into it, I can only recommend to use a good vectorizing software (like Streamline) or trace in AS by hand.

dueyftw · Post by **dueyftw** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:55 pm

My 2 cents

With out seeing the files, I'm only guessing. But if your PNG files are small then you blow them up later, you will see the raster edges in all software.

Dale

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:03 am

This is an anti-aliasing issue in AS. It is anti-aliasing the edges of the image but not to black. This causes slightly white-ish fringes in the rendering. This also happens with adjacent or connected shapes in vector layers.

-vern

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:18 am

I hate to correct you Vern, but the vector issue is more than anti-aliasing, though it does contribute a bit.

Dale's explaination sounds most likely to me. I'd expect to have heard about this issue more if it weren't something to do with the images rather than AS.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:10 am

It's a mystery then. Either way something is "wrong" with AS in this regards. There was another discussion about the "offset" of rendered images even at 100%. There is always subtle changing of the image. I think this is causing fringes around the pngs.

The issue with vector fringes could be the same thing or something else I just don't know.

Scaling should have no effect on the transparency of a png. If the transparency is "premultiplied against black" it should never leave a fringe even when scaled.

-vern

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:17 am

I think it's all speculation until Mike maybe posts some examples and gives more details about his workflow.

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:14 pm

Yeah, it'd be really helpful to see one of these troublesome PNGs. Then perhaps the issue could be narrowed a bit.

mike_burges · Post by **mike_burges** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:02 pm

Thanks for the quick replies.

I cant find how to upload images to my post?

I think I have sorted the problem with the white ring/halo around the objects by exporting as a .swf file rather than the .png.

However now im doing this certain images missing when rendering out now unless they are assigned to a bone or group (has the red dot on top of the icon in layer menu)- i cant work it out! why would the swf only render certain layers and what does the red dot mean?

For future projects i will definatley take on the advice of tracing images and using vectors. unfortunately for this project it is necessary because i needed to maintain the surface detail and texture of the image (its not completely sillohutte)

As you can probably guess i am new to AS. I had to find a piece of 2d animation software which allowed me to rig using bones etc and AS seemed liket he best choice.

again, i greatly appreciate your help.
Thanks.

jahnocli · Post by **jahnocli** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:23 pm

That red dot indicates that the layer is optimised for SWF export. Images will export to SWF providing that they are not distorted in any way. So bones distorting a bitmap is a no-no for SWF export...

slowtiger · Post by **slowtiger** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:56 pm

In order to safely export image layers to SWF, take care to bind the whole image layer to only one bone via layer binding.

mike_burges · Post by **mike_burges** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:29 pm

ahhh. that makes a lot of sense because thats what i had found but wasnt sure if it was down to something else. Thanks alot!... again