This thread is getting plenty of views but no comments....Let me re-word.
I have a class of young AS users and I am trying to explain how to use Switch Layers on a character to switch from one Pose to another.
The kids seem to think it's easier to have the pose layers of the character in seperate groups plainly visible rather than have them in a Switch Layer where the can see only one Pose at a time. With their way, they just switch the layer visibility on and off and claim it's easier to see what pose they want thier character to use next.
To me it just looks darn messy but I can't deny their logic.
I have always used Switch Layers and can't help but think they are right on this. Any feedback on the advantages/disadvantages of using a Switch Layer as opposed to Layer Visibility is more than welcome.
Cheers
D.K
Switch Layers VS Layer Visibility feedback please
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Switch Layers VS Layer Visibility feedback please
Last edited by DK on Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just explain them that animate visibility is tedious and difficult to move along the time. That's the main relevant feature of switch layer (besides the usage of bones and smooth interpolation that probably is not the scope of the lessons)
Also you can let them draw the main poses in normal vector layers (they can see all them together) using the eyes visibility icon during edition. Later when they are happy with the results just place the vector layers inside a switch layer just for animation task. Eyes icon has a cool feature: if one layer is selected and visible and the other don't, if you select a new layer of same group it becomes visible and the old one not. Like the switch layer but with the eyes icon.
-G
Also you can let them draw the main poses in normal vector layers (they can see all them together) using the eyes visibility icon during edition. Later when they are happy with the results just place the vector layers inside a switch layer just for animation task. Eyes icon has a cool feature: if one layer is selected and visible and the other don't, if you select a new layer of same group it becomes visible and the old one not. Like the switch layer but with the eyes icon.
-G
Have to admit something:
In the animations I did untill now I never really needed the switch layers. Sometimes I could use it, but I never found out how it exactly works... So I work with the visibility-trick...
Actually it doesn't take much time off...
Is there somewhere a good explanation or tutorial for switchlayers?
In the animations I did untill now I never really needed the switch layers. Sometimes I could use it, but I never found out how it exactly works... So I work with the visibility-trick...
Actually it doesn't take much time off...
Is there somewhere a good explanation or tutorial for switchlayers?
On page 2 of the "Tips & Techniques | *** Resources ***" section on this forum, you can find a fully rigged character I have built which makes heavy use of switch layers, You're welcome to use it as a teaching aid if you want. (I adapted it from "Odd Job Jack" Flash artwork made freely available by the show's creators). Try doing THIS just using visibility...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
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synthsin75
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The only real benefit of using layer visibilty is that you can see what specific gesture/pose you need to make the next angle view match up to. If you're doing these angle changes in-camera, this would be more important. But if you use camera cuts to hide these, not so much.
But it is quicker to find a single switch layer than hunt for the pose. It all depends on how much you'd intend on changing poses.
But it is quicker to find a single switch layer than hunt for the pose. It all depends on how much you'd intend on changing poses.
While I myself would never use layer visibility in this way (because, yes, you're right -- switch layers are so much more organized and not the mess visibility would be) there are some things that are better learned than taught. In other words, let the kids do what they want.
Your job is simply to facilitate their understanding, correct? So as long as they understand switch layers, and how it is used by most professionals because it's easier to keep track of things that way, then you've made your point. Assuming those of us who use switch layers are right (and this "rightness" might not be so readily apparent or even have as much merit in a less demanding workflow) eventually the kids will try it out, seeking a better way (or at least asking if there IS a better way, at which point you can remind them again about switch layers).
I know some of the things I've learned best are those core "aha" moments where, on my own, I had to understand that some things my teachers/elders/mentors were saying were right even as I did it MY way. So don't beat yourself, or them, up on this issue.
Your job is simply to facilitate their understanding, correct? So as long as they understand switch layers, and how it is used by most professionals because it's easier to keep track of things that way, then you've made your point. Assuming those of us who use switch layers are right (and this "rightness" might not be so readily apparent or even have as much merit in a less demanding workflow) eventually the kids will try it out, seeking a better way (or at least asking if there IS a better way, at which point you can remind them again about switch layers).
I know some of the things I've learned best are those core "aha" moments where, on my own, I had to understand that some things my teachers/elders/mentors were saying were right even as I did it MY way. So don't beat yourself, or them, up on this issue.
The thing with using visibility layers to move between poses instead of switch layers is that with visibility you will at some point see two poses at the same time as one pose fades out and the next one fades in. If you don't fade out the visibility over time but just use sudden changes in visibility (where one layer goes invisible on the same keyframe as the next layer becomes visible) the you have a sort of jump cut between poses. This can work alright for some poses, but it can be annoying after a while to see the character jump from one pose to another all the time.
Using switch layers you can simply switch between the poses and in many cases you can use the Interpoloate sub layers checkbox to make the transitions smooth. Switch layers are invaluable if you're doing lip synch. I think overall, Switch layers are even easier to use than visibility for jumping from pose to pose also.
Jack
Using switch layers you can simply switch between the poses and in many cases you can use the Interpoloate sub layers checkbox to make the transitions smooth. Switch layers are invaluable if you're doing lip synch. I think overall, Switch layers are even easier to use than visibility for jumping from pose to pose also.
Jack
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funksmaname
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personally I find switch layers a little tedious to set up unless you are using the same base shape so you can interpolate, i think thats where switch layers have the advantage as not only can you change the pose later, the interpolation between switch layers is automatically changed throughout.
I use layer visibility a lot more to create more traditional effects, where the shape needs to change quite a bit for example if i were doing a water splash, i would do a single splash on one layer, then turn it off and turn on another layer with 3 seperate blobs and continue the animation so it looks like it splits.
Also i prefer to use seperate layers with visibility keys to control objects connection to other objects. If you look at http://www.hellobullet.com, under 'beliefs' and mouse over 'don't guess, know' you see the little hat throw animation is 3 different hat layers, one attached to the head, one to the hand and one not attached, with its own bone... i find it more manageable to do it this way than have a switch layer for the head +/- hat, hand +/- hat and then a hat on its own anyway...
I guess if i were creating a more reusable 'bank' of characters with poses, i would maybe take the time to set up switches, but my work tends to be more 'improvised' which usually means finding the quickest, easiest way to get something done without too much forethought
I use layer visibility a lot more to create more traditional effects, where the shape needs to change quite a bit for example if i were doing a water splash, i would do a single splash on one layer, then turn it off and turn on another layer with 3 seperate blobs and continue the animation so it looks like it splits.
Also i prefer to use seperate layers with visibility keys to control objects connection to other objects. If you look at http://www.hellobullet.com, under 'beliefs' and mouse over 'don't guess, know' you see the little hat throw animation is 3 different hat layers, one attached to the head, one to the hand and one not attached, with its own bone... i find it more manageable to do it this way than have a switch layer for the head +/- hat, hand +/- hat and then a hat on its own anyway...
I guess if i were creating a more reusable 'bank' of characters with poses, i would maybe take the time to set up switches, but my work tends to be more 'improvised' which usually means finding the quickest, easiest way to get something done without too much forethought
Layer visibility can be "toggled" by simply clicking in the time line on the channel. None of the other channels have this option. So, if there is a need for quick toggling of visibility this is faster than a switch layer.
There also is the issue of "accessibility". Layers inside switches are difficult to view "at the same time" if needed, without dragging one or more layers OUT of the switch which is always a pain.
If I don't have a specific need for a switch (at least 3 layers to choose from) I tend to use visibility. As was mentioned setting up a switch in simple situations can get a bit fussy.
-vern
There also is the issue of "accessibility". Layers inside switches are difficult to view "at the same time" if needed, without dragging one or more layers OUT of the switch which is always a pain.
If I don't have a specific need for a switch (at least 3 layers to choose from) I tend to use visibility. As was mentioned setting up a switch in simple situations can get a bit fussy.
-vern
Hi every one. i use both switch layer and the layer visibility. both of them come handy once in a while depending on how well they are used. here is something i did usig switch leyer.http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=cb28 ... b9a8902bda.
its hard but not imposible keep trying and never give up.
costanza wrote:
How on earth did you do lipsincing if you din't know how switch layers work?
Cheers
D.K
A point just hit me regarding costanzas post.Have to admit something:
In the animations I did untill now I never really needed the switch layers. Sometimes I could use it, but I never found out how it exactly works... So I work with the visibility-trick...
How on earth did you do lipsincing if you din't know how switch layers work?
Cheers
D.K