No "BONES" about it head turn idea...

rplate · Post by **rplate** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:05 am

I revised this and took off the graphics for this entry.
Go here for the latest update of what I did with the head turn.
Click here for a boneless ham This is a movie of Vern and the result of the refined procedure. Have a look.
Then here... viewtopic.php?t=10060

Regards,

Bob

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:20 am

10. Go to a key frame (say 24) and using the scale points tool, pull the middle red dot inward a reasonable amount.

It is the same than using a bone per face side. The benefit of DK's simple head turn is that adding more bones (different lengths and different scale constraints) you can have a reasonable 3/4 head turn that doesn't look as flat as your example.

BTW, Why divide the face into two symmetrical sides? why don't just scale the original?

-G

rplate · Post by **rplate** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:33 am

Genete wrote:
10. Go to a key frame (say 24) and using the scale points tool, pull the middle red dot inward a reasonable amount.
It is the same than using a bone per face side. The benefit of DK's simple head turn is that adding more bones (different lengths and different scale constraints) you can have a reasonable 3/4 head turn that doesn't look as flat as your example.

BTW, Why divide the face into two symmetrical sides? why don't just scale the original?

-G

Yes it is the same as using bones, except try using bones with that many points. You can't just scale the original. One side has to change differently than the other side. I tried. And it was impossible to select the points from one side to the other without dragging and distorting other parts of the face.
Besides a dummy like me isn't smart enough to use "bones".

The flat look can probably be tweaked out if I really got serious about it. But This was my first try at it. DK' or for that matter, Vern's first attempt wasn't perfected either. I was hoping for some constructive help here.

EDIT: This could well be used as a simple way to transition from front view to side view (switched).

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:53 am

Don't be disappointed for my comments!

I'm lately more point motion lover than before!

Let me give you an friendly advice. Make experiments with simpler models. It will save a lot of time. Also it will allow complicate it later. If it is complicated to control from the beginning then you cannot obtain more benefits when need to add more control over it.

IMHO the best technique for head turn without using bones is DarthFurby's head turn with Actions. See tutorials: #1, #2, #3.

-G

rplate · Post by **rplate** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:22 am

Genete wrote: Let me give you an friendly advice. Make experiments with simpler models. It will save a lot of time. Also it will allow complicate it later. If it is complicated to control from the beginning then you cannot obtain more benefits when need to add more control over it.
-G

That's the whole point (no pun intended

) I took something very complicated and within 30 minutes I could make the head turn. It wasn't complicated at all. Thanks to DK's head turn model. I'm just trying to add to the flow and give another alternative to simple head turns. Yes. it needs some refinements but I was hoping others might give some input like they did for that great 4 bones head turn. Should I separate the nose? How about a separate mouth layer?

Different ones chipped in for the various parts of the "bone" head turn. Why not some thoughts here as well?

DK · Post by DK » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:00 am

I like your idea rplate because like you said it's uncomplicated! You could also try using just the two images in AS without vectorizing them maybe? Keep on experimenting!!!!

Cheers
D.K

rplate · Post by **rplate** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:04 am

DK wrote:I like your idea rplate because like you said it's uncomplicated! You could also try using just the two images in AS without vectorizing them maybe? Keep on experimenting!!!!

Cheers
D.K

That would eliminate rendering in Flash wouldn't it?

DK · Post by DK » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:07 am

Your'e right. No swf output when using images.

D.K

rplate · Post by **rplate** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:49 am

rplate wrote:
DK wrote:I like your idea rplate because like you said it's uncomplicated! You could also try using just the two images in AS without vectorizing them maybe? Keep on experimenting!!!!

Cheers
D.K
That would eliminate rendering in Flash wouldn't it?

Answer... Yes, it would. And how would one change the shape without putting "BONES" into it?

Well I'm still experimenting.
Instead of two separate layers I put both halves into one layer and made select groups of the various parts of the head, eyes, nose, mouth halves, etc, etc. That way I could use the magnet tool too blend the flatness out of the center of the face a little. One can tweak it as fine as one wants. It's not any more effort than tweaking bones. That is if you could put bones into such a complcated vector image.

Next I'll try mouth shapes. Move the eyes around??? Hmm, what a challenge.

For as complicated as the vector image is, it renders quite rapidly into a flash file.
Here's an update flash sample.
...a movie example
.... EDIT:12/15/07
I redid the example. Added verticle head movement, eye squint and mouth open close. And, tweaked some points.

Thanks again DK and Genete for inspiring me. I wish I knew this when I was working on my contest entry with Captain Kirk.
One gets old too soon and smart too late.

By the way... there are only four key frames in the whole animation.
.
.

rplate · Post by **rplate** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:47 pm

AND... thanks to whoever pointed me to vector magic. It certainly opens up my options on vector drawings.

http://vectormagic.stanford.edu/

rplate · Post by **rplate** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:45 am

After more experimenting with the new discovery or rather, (adaptation of DK's bonehead turn) I hope you will indulge me a bit more. I get so amazed how simple it is to import a good vector image from Vector Magic (and convert it to Adobe Illustrator) and then into Anime Studio.

I've changed some of the process. I'll explain: The Bold is what has changed...

1. Choose a front view face. Open in a draw program.
2. Divide it down the middle with square lasso tool.
3. Delete half and save the remaining half as a jpeg file. Keep both halves. Front view faces are not always semetrical.
4. Upload saved ping into Vector Magic jpeg is not a valid input for Vector magic
5. Save file in Output: EPS, or SVG according to your vector draw program.
6. Convert to Adobe Illustrator 6 or 8 (test what works for you)
7. Import into Anime Studio as a Adobe Illustrator file.
9. Select the all the points and create a select group tab in the top. left corner and name each group (face) or whatever. Don't forget to name each group and "SET" it
I start with select all when I import the first half, then select all in the second imported layer and copy and past it into the first layer' While it's still high lighted I name it as a Select group and "Set" it
Note: Here's the reason why it is important to import to separate halves, If you imput the whole face and split it in ASP you will inadvertently break various shapes and lose the color style. You'll have a mess.
8. Duplicate the file and flip it. No need to duplicate and flip. Faces are not always semetric. The example I used in my first post just happened to be.
9. Now, on frame zero align the two halves to make a front view face.
10. Make sure to high light and then go to a key frame (say 24) and using the scale points tool, pull the middle red dot inward a reasonable amount.. You will see a red box around the area that is highlighted. Now is when I like to turn on preview in the lower right hand corner so I can see what's happening with my image.

11.Changing my selection (in the Select Group box) to the other side of the image I expand or contract as needed.
12. With the Translate tool ( Not the layer Translate tool) drag and match the seam of the two layers and go to another key frame and tweak some more of the head turn. When you drag don't put you cursor inside the highlighted area. It will un-highlight. Use the lasso tool to draw around your areas you want highlighted. The more planning you do ahead in entering your areas in the select group menu the easier the process will be. I compare this with bone parenting.

Gotta keep this forum fair and balanced. Then you decide.

Give me some feedback here. I'm not mad at anybody.

Oh! BTW Here's Dr. "Bones" turning the other cheek.

Enough for now. Gotta go to bed. There's church tomorrow.

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:28 am

The last sample is looking much better than the first one! Good work!
(I think heyvern wouldn't think the same!

)

Hey! you can "record" the movements into actions for later uses! (that will convert your technique into a variation of DarthFurby's 1 frame action head turn

).

Keep it up!

-G

rplate · Post by **rplate** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:57 pm

Genete wrote:The last sample is looking much better than the first one! Good work!
(I think heyvern wouldn't think the same! )

Hey! you can "record" the movements into actions for later uses! (that will convert your technique into a variation of DarthFurby's 1 frame action head turn ).

Keep it up!

-G

Hey, thanks Genete. Thanks for that actions tip to. I'll have to watch the tutorial and see how that might work. I'm thinking now, I should work on trying to sync with a switch layer "side view" to complete the turn. Of course I'll have to use a different subject than Vern. I don't have a side view of him./

Vern, if this picture of you is offensive, I'll take it down. Actually it could almost pass for Indiana Jones

Take another look.
.
.
.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:12 pm

rplate wrote:
Oh! BTW Here's Dr. "Bones" turning the other cheek.

Hey! That's me!

Kind of freaky. I clicked the link before reading the post... imagine the awful fright I recieved. Like those internet videos with the scary witch that pops up and scares the hell out of people. Someone created a 3D version of me in Animation:Master a while back (not very flattering I must say):
http://www.hash.com/stills/displayimage ... m=3&pos=26
I can't imagine why... I don't consider myself.. "photogenic".

p.s. I have a goatee now... but I still wear the hat!
p.s.s I would like to comment on this technique but I can't... there aren't any bones in it!!!
p.s.s. Where the heck did you find that picture? Was that the one Darthfurby posted?

- Dr. "Bones"

DarthFurby · Post by **DarthFurby** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:18 pm

Hi rplate, thanks for sharing these experiments. There are a lot of techniques in Anime Studio that have yet to be discovered, and if it doesn't lead to anything now, it may come in handy some day in the future. I will often comb through the forums looking for bits of insight and tests like the one you're doing. Sometimes it's the subtle things that lead to something very big.

And Vern I did warn you before posting that picture! That head turn is awesome. LOL!