So, I've had some ideas for fantasy~style stories that I'd like, some day, to turn into a sort of graphic novel or animated story. Toward that end I've gotten into Anime studio and I've been experimenting with character design and animation. Here's an example of my latest experiment.
http://www2.bc.edu/~nagelh/exploring.an ... Test02.swf
But what I have found is:
1. Drawing in Anime studio is really hard!
2. It takes up A LOT of time, and
3. I can't seem to get the dynamic and engripping poses from my sketchpad to translate to the kind of animation I'm envisioning.
For example, this guy took me several hours to put together (we're talking on the order of 3-4 hours here) for this simple cartoon guy. Is that reasonable to expect for this (limited) degree of complexity? I'm starting to wonder ~~ is it just me (am I just a bit slower than everybody else) or is it just really hard to get something reasonably satisfying out.
I completely agree with Human's post ( viewtopic.php?t=8586 ) ~~ that full body animation for humanoid characters is really complex (there are very many degrees of freedom to contend with). Especially with characters with the degree of detail you posted.
Finally ~~ I'm glad too see p6r's book. I'm particularly interested in your thoughts on drawing in anime studio. Doesn't it take too long? I can whip out a very dynamic sketch in 10-20 minutes, spend 2 hours translating it into Anime studio vector graphics and even then it seems to loose the same dynamic quality I can achieve with pencil and paper...
Any thoughts anyone? Do most folks draw directly in anime studio or do you have some preferred technique to import artwork, cut it up and rig a character?
Character Animation Experiments
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
Character Animation Experiments
Dr. Nick
----
"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest."
-Confucius
----
"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest."
-Confucius
If you now look at my thread, you'll see that my plan involves using pixel-based morphing to generate the character animation.**
My philosophy is that once you have an animation composed of reasonably high-res (make that medium-res, in fact) pixel frames where the background acts as a greenscreen, you can vectorize each frame.
That would provide the artists with a pathway to cinema-screen resolution--(if necessary).
** Once you have an animated character, you might, if you wish, come to Anime Studio to place that character in a scene.
My philosophy is that once you have an animation composed of reasonably high-res (make that medium-res, in fact) pixel frames where the background acts as a greenscreen, you can vectorize each frame.
That would provide the artists with a pathway to cinema-screen resolution--(if necessary).
** Once you have an animated character, you might, if you wish, come to Anime Studio to place that character in a scene.
Dr. Nick: You're reasonably fast. Rigging a character is a time-consuming task in any case - that's why there are specialized riggers in 3D animation.
Most of us here are used to do every aspect of animation by ourselves: Idea, story, character design, character setup/rigging, animation ... Doing animation as a one-person-job is tedious, no matter which technique you use. Experience helps, in the way that I know which technique will need more time than another, and so I can avoid anything which is too time-consuming.
It is often said that "procedural animation" (that is everything from 3D CGI to flash and AS, where you have a rigged character and do the keys, and the software does most of the inbetweens) is a timesaver or cheaper than any other way. This is not true, because one can't state this without any reference to the certain style of an animation.
If you are a good draughtsman, you might be much faster with a bitmap-based software - but then you have to do all the inbetweens by hand. If someone can't draw really good but has the ideas and a talent for timing, he could achieve good results in AS if his character designs are really suitable for 2D vector animation.
Your character's style is somewhere in the middle of mainstream: it is reasonably well drawn, but already has those clean vector outlines. The construction is somewhat undefined: it isn't really based in 3D like some Disney character, nor is it real 2D like "Teenage Robot" or such. This is the source of your problems with rigging it: your design isn't really decided enough, if you don't mind my judgement.
To avoid the frustrating experience of "on paper it is alive, but it doesn't translate into software" one should always bear in mind to design characters and choose a style which fits the available technique. And if you're not satisfied with the results, you might choose a different software, a different way to do things.
(Maybe I find the time and dig up some examples just to show the possible bandwidth of designs for a character like yours later, but first I have to visit the doctor today ...)
Most of us here are used to do every aspect of animation by ourselves: Idea, story, character design, character setup/rigging, animation ... Doing animation as a one-person-job is tedious, no matter which technique you use. Experience helps, in the way that I know which technique will need more time than another, and so I can avoid anything which is too time-consuming.
It is often said that "procedural animation" (that is everything from 3D CGI to flash and AS, where you have a rigged character and do the keys, and the software does most of the inbetweens) is a timesaver or cheaper than any other way. This is not true, because one can't state this without any reference to the certain style of an animation.
If you are a good draughtsman, you might be much faster with a bitmap-based software - but then you have to do all the inbetweens by hand. If someone can't draw really good but has the ideas and a talent for timing, he could achieve good results in AS if his character designs are really suitable for 2D vector animation.
Your character's style is somewhere in the middle of mainstream: it is reasonably well drawn, but already has those clean vector outlines. The construction is somewhat undefined: it isn't really based in 3D like some Disney character, nor is it real 2D like "Teenage Robot" or such. This is the source of your problems with rigging it: your design isn't really decided enough, if you don't mind my judgement.
To avoid the frustrating experience of "on paper it is alive, but it doesn't translate into software" one should always bear in mind to design characters and choose a style which fits the available technique. And if you're not satisfied with the results, you might choose a different software, a different way to do things.
(Maybe I find the time and dig up some examples just to show the possible bandwidth of designs for a character like yours later, but first I have to visit the doctor today ...)
Abou the poll:
I find drawing with vectors as easy as with pencil on paper - but I have a decade of experience with this, using vector graphics in programs like Freehand, Illustrator, Flash, Animo, AS. It is a different flavour of "drawing", because I spend more time in refining curves and make everything clean and flawless.
I usually choose vector style for projects which require a technical and clean look. Everything loosely and wild I do with pencil on paper - or with a pen on the tablet.
Another point in favour of vector is the ability to easily repeat movements and multiply characters. In the end everything ends up on film (so I hope), and I'm working on the specifications of a style which I can do with pencil as well as with AS, blending both together so no one could tell the difference ...
I find drawing with vectors as easy as with pencil on paper - but I have a decade of experience with this, using vector graphics in programs like Freehand, Illustrator, Flash, Animo, AS. It is a different flavour of "drawing", because I spend more time in refining curves and make everything clean and flawless.
I usually choose vector style for projects which require a technical and clean look. Everything loosely and wild I do with pencil on paper - or with a pen on the tablet.
Another point in favour of vector is the ability to easily repeat movements and multiply characters. In the end everything ends up on film (so I hope), and I'm working on the specifications of a style which I can do with pencil as well as with AS, blending both together so no one could tell the difference ...
I'm with slowtiger.
Lots and lots of experience with vectors so... not so hard.
But, there was a learning curve when I first purchased Moho (ASP).
If you get past that learning curve and get a hang of all the tricks your drawing skills in AS will improve and feel more comfortable.
3-4 hours? Is that from conception to final character? If so that is FAST. 3-4 hours is nothing even when I am tracing over a "pre-drawn" character. There are many things to think about during the process, where points should go for smooth joints, shape ordering etc etc.
There's another thing to consider. Let's say you can draw a character with pencil very quickly. In order to use it it must be scanned. Then it must be animated in some fashion. Either drawing all the inbetweens or by using a different animation package aids in creating inbetweens from key drawings. If you draw all the inbetweens by hand or even the key poses this time will still add up.
Time might be saved if you could draw with a stylus directly into the computer. Even that has a learning curve.
The time spent on good animation is all relative. Each technique has pluses and minuses. You may gain some time with one technique only to lose time on another aspect of that process.
-vern
Lots and lots of experience with vectors so... not so hard.
But, there was a learning curve when I first purchased Moho (ASP).
If you get past that learning curve and get a hang of all the tricks your drawing skills in AS will improve and feel more comfortable.
3-4 hours? Is that from conception to final character? If so that is FAST. 3-4 hours is nothing even when I am tracing over a "pre-drawn" character. There are many things to think about during the process, where points should go for smooth joints, shape ordering etc etc.
There's another thing to consider. Let's say you can draw a character with pencil very quickly. In order to use it it must be scanned. Then it must be animated in some fashion. Either drawing all the inbetweens or by using a different animation package aids in creating inbetweens from key drawings. If you draw all the inbetweens by hand or even the key poses this time will still add up.
Time might be saved if you could draw with a stylus directly into the computer. Even that has a learning curve.
The time spent on good animation is all relative. Each technique has pluses and minuses. You may gain some time with one technique only to lose time on another aspect of that process.
-vern
Thanks for the feedback
Thanks folks, for your feedback. First ~~ it's good to know from experienced folks rough, reasonable time estimates on work. I have a tendency to get immersed in stuff so that when I come up for air I find huge chunks of time have evaporated ~~ a sort of "rip van winkle" effect. So it's good to try to pace the work and know when you're getting in too deep.
But Slow Tiger you're exactly right. Part of my issue is that I haven't committed to a style yet. My annoying day job keeps getting in the way of what I should be doing in life ~~ namely drawing ~~ and I just haven't logged enough hours to really develop a style. So I'd really love to see your examples if you can make the time to dig 'em up (but I realize that's a big ask).
But all that being said ~~ I have to say that there are some things I really love about drawing with vector graphics. I love the concept of "sculpting" lines. I could spend hours just fiddling with the effects to get just the right result. And, of course, what you pay for up front with the time it takes to sculpt those lines you get back with the ability to develop and re-use images and component libraries. So in a team environment, you're right ~~ you can achieve a nice separation of responsibilities.
As far as vector graphics drawing tools go, AS is head and shoulders the best I've come across ~~ at least for drawing cartoons (cannot speak to drafting). I beats flash hands down in terms of speed and effects (IMHO) and it wins over Illustrator for ease of use. I was able to start doing stuff with AS after about 2 hours with the introductory tutorial. So, yeah kudos to you AS developer persons ~~ you really put together a sweet product.
I guess what I have to do is log enough hours to understand the constraints of the kind of animation you can create with AS (as slowtiger pointed out)....
But Slow Tiger you're exactly right. Part of my issue is that I haven't committed to a style yet. My annoying day job keeps getting in the way of what I should be doing in life ~~ namely drawing ~~ and I just haven't logged enough hours to really develop a style. So I'd really love to see your examples if you can make the time to dig 'em up (but I realize that's a big ask).
But all that being said ~~ I have to say that there are some things I really love about drawing with vector graphics. I love the concept of "sculpting" lines. I could spend hours just fiddling with the effects to get just the right result. And, of course, what you pay for up front with the time it takes to sculpt those lines you get back with the ability to develop and re-use images and component libraries. So in a team environment, you're right ~~ you can achieve a nice separation of responsibilities.
As far as vector graphics drawing tools go, AS is head and shoulders the best I've come across ~~ at least for drawing cartoons (cannot speak to drafting). I beats flash hands down in terms of speed and effects (IMHO) and it wins over Illustrator for ease of use. I was able to start doing stuff with AS after about 2 hours with the introductory tutorial. So, yeah kudos to you AS developer persons ~~ you really put together a sweet product.
I guess what I have to do is log enough hours to understand the constraints of the kind of animation you can create with AS (as slowtiger pointed out)....
Dr. Nick
----
"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest."
-Confucius
----
"By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest."
-Confucius