Help me pls !

[Lychee]

Hi everyone.

For years, I’ve been experimenting with and refining a method for creating "fake 3D" characters.
I’ve tried to simplify my ideas as much as possible and feel I’ve reached the limit of what I can devise.
My entire system relies on target bones for the joints to animate the characters, combined with a mechanism to move these targets within a simulated 3D environment.
It works well for individual limbs, but when I try to create a "Smart Bone" to control all limbs simultaneously, to rotate the entire body, Moho causes an offset in the targets that previously worked fine on their own.

I believe I’ve tried everything that makes sense to me, which is why I’m reaching out to see if you have any other ideas for a workaround.
In a worst-case scenario, I can do without a master Smart Bone and simply animate the arms, legs, and torso simultaneously to achieve the body rotation.
If no solution comes to mind, I at least hope my file helps the developers fix this bug that has been frustrating me for so many years.

Explanation of how my setup works:

At the bottom of the leg (see attached file), I placed a large horizontal bone (Leg Rotation) and attached three bones to it named "Switcher" (Knee, Heel, and Foot).
In the bone constraint settings, these three Switcher bones must rotate in the opposite direction of the "Leg Rotation" bone to keep them upright (enable "Independent Angle" or set the Switchers' rotation to -100 relative to the "Leg Rotation" bone).

I created a 360-degree "Leg Rotation" smart bone, when it reached 180° (midway through the animation), I compressed all the Switchers into the negative range (from 100% down to -100%) and then returned the compression to its starting point at the smart bone's final frame.

Next, I attached three "pin bones" (CTRL) to serve as controls for each of the leg's joints (Knee CTRL linked to Knee Switcher...).
After that, I set up bone constraints so that the Switchers move based on their corresponding pin bones, specifically, 50% on the X-axis and 0% on the Y-axis (Knee Switcher at 50% of Knee CTRL...).
At this stage, when you move the CTRL pin bones and use the Leg Rotation smart bone, the pin bones will move in an elliptical path with a sense of perspective, simulating a 3D effect.

I leave it to you to examine the rest of the setup, experts in the field should find it easy to understand.

The file: https://www.casimages.com/fi/2609170246 ... 9.zip.html

[sang820]

I recommend that you try not to leave interactive bones on the ground, except for foot target bones. Here is a link to a free-arm setup I created; I hope you find it helpful.
Wishing you all the best
Yang.

[Lychee]

I recommend that you try not to leave interactive bones on the ground, except for foot target bones. Here is a link to a free-arm setup I created; I hope you find it helpful.
Wishing you all the best
Yang.

First of all, thank you for your reply.

However, I admit I didn't quite understand it, based on your example, I don't see how to replicate my "fake 3D" system, and more importantly, it doesn't address the issue Moho is causing with my rig.
It works fine when using the leg's Smart Bone, but shifts out of alignment when I use the body's Smart Bone.
There is a problem when I use "switcher" bones (bones compressed to negative values) to flip the attached pin bones from one profile to the opposite one to simulate 3D.

It works when controlled directly by a Smart Bone, but not when this Smart Bone is controlled by another (the body controlling the leg).
That is why I am asking for help to work around this issue.

I'll try to find the time to make a video so that my point is clearer.

Best regards.

[sang820]

I recommend that you try not to leave interactive bones on the ground, except for foot target bones. Here is a link to a free-arm setup I created; I hope you find it helpful.
Wishing you all the best
Yang.

First of all, thank you for your reply.

However, I admit I didn't quite understand it, based on your example, I don't see how to replicate my "fake 3D" system, and more importantly, it doesn't address the issue Moho is causing with my rig.
It works fine when using the leg's Smart Bone, but shifts out of alignment when I use the body's Smart Bone.
There is a problem when I use "switcher" bones (bones compressed to negative values) to flip the attached pin bones from one profile to the opposite one to simulate 3D.

It works when controlled directly by a Smart Bone, but not when this Smart Bone is controlled by another (the body controlling the leg).
That is why I am asking for help to work around this issue.

I'll try to find the time to make a video so that my point is clearer.

Best regards.

I want to say that you have done a great job in terms of contour and line occlusion. But have you tried adding details to your legs? For example, pants and pleats, pants patterns. If your 3D settings cannot solve these problems, then continuing with this approach will only result in blank limbs (of course, if you do not want a model with clothes on), and there is no need to continue exploring the problem you are currently struggling with.
I am sending you the model video I made, hoping to bring you new ideas. I have also been pursuing the effect of fake 3D, and this is the current progress. I have taken many detours in this regard, and I hope you can have a smoother journey.

[Lychee]

The issue isn't how I created the limb itself, the main problem lies in the system I'm using to guide that limb within a simulated 3D space.

After running a few tests, I realized that Moho won't allow a bone to compress unless that compression is driven directly by a Smart Bone.
In other words, if I program a "leg rotation" Smart Bone to compress another bone, it works fine.
However, if I use a "body rotation" Smart Bone to control the rotation of that "leg rotation" Smart Bone, which itself handles the bone compression used to switch joint guides from left to right profiles, then it stops working correctly.

As promised, I’ve attached a video showing the construction steps (in a simplified form), and in a more conventional manner for the limb component.
Please note: I do make occasional mistakes or encounter bugs that require some troubleshooting, which makes the video a bit longer.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15oxWeb ... sp=sharing

[synthsin75]

Maybe set it up backwards?

Have the body smart bone turn everything and then have the individual limb smart bones "counter-rotate" each limb.

[synthsin75]

KuzKuz told me that having one target bone anywhere in the skeleton of the scaled bone makes this smart bone control relay work.
It worked in my simple test.

EDIT: So adding a child pin bone to the tip of your Leg Rotation bone and making it that bone's target seems to allow your Foot, Ankle, and Knee CTRL bones to move properly using the Body Rotation bone. But the vectors and leg bones do not follow.

The bigger problem seems to be that smart bones do not update the position of target bones, so your leg bones are still pointing to where they *think" your pin bones are.

[sang820]

The issue isn't how I created the limb itself, the main problem lies in the system I'm using to guide that limb within a simulated 3D space.

After running a few tests, I realized that Moho won't allow a bone to compress unless that compression is driven directly by a Smart Bone.
In other words, if I program a "leg" Smart Bone to compress another bone, it works fine.
However, if I use a "body" Smart Bone to control the rotation of that "leg" Smart Bone, which itself handles the bone compression used to switch joint guides from left to right profiles, then it stops working correctly.

As promised, I’ve attached a video showing the construction steps (in a simplified form), and in a more conventional manner for the limb component.
Please note: I do make occasional mistakes or encounter bugs that require some troubleshooting, which makes the video a bit longer.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15oxWeb ... sp=sharing

Hi,
I’m not entirely sure I fully grasp your requirements, but if you parent both the left heel and the global rotation bone to the "pin bone" located above the thigh, the left leg becomes a relatively self-contained system. This shouldn't interfere with the skeletal interactions of the other leg, the torso, or the arms. I hope this helps—feel free to discuss this further.
All the best,
Yang.

[Lychee]

Hi,
I’m not entirely sure I fully grasp your requirements, but if you parent both the left heel and the global rotation bone to the "pin bone" located above the thigh, the left leg becomes a relatively self-contained system. This shouldn't interfere with the skeletal interactions of the other leg, the torso, or the arms. I hope this helps—feel free to discuss this further.
All the best,
Yang.

The problem is that if you attach the joint rotation/switching system to the hip, lowering the character will move the entire body, not just the torso.

In the file from the start of the thread, I’ve already linked the leg to the body using the "Hip Rotation" bone, and the leg rotation system is connected to the "Body Rotation" smart bone via the small "leg stabilizer" bone.
It is important for the leg joints to have a connection to the ground so the character reacts logically when animating the upper body independently of the legs.

Also regarding the file: I created an animation illustrating the issue I encountered when trying to rotate the whole body using the "Body Rotation" smart bone.
If I delete the "Body Rotation" action and select both the leg and body rotation bones, I can rotate the character correctly.

The thing is, and this is the root of my problem, is that I can't seem to get a single bone to control the entire body rotation (legs + torso + ...).

[Lychee]

Hi, and thanks for your reply.

I didn't understand when you said:

Maybe set it up backwards?

Have the body smart bone turn everything and then have the individual limb smart bones "counter-rotate" each limb.

If you have a solution to my problem, could you illustrate it in a Moho file please?

[synthsin75]

Hi, and thanks for your reply.

I didn't understand when you said:

Maybe set it up backwards?

Have the body smart bone turn everything and then have the individual limb smart bones "counter-rotate" each limb.

If you have a solution to my problem, could you illustrate it in a Moho file please?

After studying your rig more, I don't think that suggestion will work.