thin line widths

snowflake · Post by **snowflake** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:44 pm

hi all,

i'm trying to get some fine lines done in moho....
is there a way to reduce line width to less than 1 ?

Post by **Lost Marble** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:14 pm

If you turn off "Scale compensation" in the Layer settings dialog, Moho will use a different algorithm to draw lines that can go thinner.

snowflake · Post by **snowflake** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:24 am

thanks a bunch!
i spent time trying all sorts of things and the lines still turned out fat in the render....now i get it...

snowflake · Post by **snowflake** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:41 pm

i have turned off 'scale compensation' for the layer and that has got rid
of thick lines when i render.

however, i can't decrease the line width any further. i tried scaling points, translate/scale layer and camera zoom.

when i create a shape with add point and then use create shape on it,
then use line width on an edge to try to thin it down - it ends up being rendered as a thick line again...

is there a limit to how thin a line can be rendered/drawn at?

kdiddy13 · Post by **kdiddy13** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:31 pm

is there a limit to how thin a line can be rendered/drawn at?

1 pixel?

Here's a hypthesis (I'm at work so I can't try it out):

Try drawing the image slightly larger than you need it. Turn off scale compensation (or on? I always get it backwards), then try scaling your image, zooming out, or moving the camera back. If I recall you can get different line widths this way.

I'll try it out this weekend, to see if I can't figure something else out.
________
AIRSOFT SHOP

Post by **Lost Marble** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:56 pm

1 pixel is the minimum width, but you can make it appear thinner by using a shade of gray instead of black, or making the line color semi-transparent.

snowflake · Post by **snowflake** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:51 pm

to make sure my eyes weren't wrong, i did a little test.

when i render a black line with width 1 in moho and then put into photoshop, then use photoshop to draw a line next to it i can see a
difference. when i use photoshop zoom in i found that the
photoshop line width to moho line width is 1:2.
also the moho line is half grey and half black symmetrically.

i have checked and i don't have shadow setting on.
default settings are used.

maybe the 'create shape' tool has something to do with it.
i use create shape tool on a drawn line to make it visible when i render it.

Postality · Post by **Postality** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:42 pm

If anti-aliasing is ON then the line will be larger.

Turn it off and you'll see a huge diffrence

AA gives you a nice smooth line, thus the slightly larger width, if you turn it off you will get a single kind of pixelated line but it will be smaller.

snowflake · Post by **snowflake** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:30 pm

kddiddy13, i've tried drawing large pic and zoom etc.. didn't work tho thanks for the suggestion...

i installed on another computer and got the same effect.

the anti-alias option only seems to appear in 'export animation' which
not to do with simple render and when turned off still no difference.

also noticed something really weird.
in photoshop if i draw a line in 'actual pixels' view and zoom in it's ok.
however, if i draw a line in 'zoomed in' view then there's the grey shade with the black line that makes it blurry and wider even when going back to actual pixels view.

in the basic 'Paint' program in xp when i draw a line in any view it does not give me that problem that i am getting in photoshop zoom view and moho any view.

maybe it's xp....

snowflake · Post by **snowflake** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:42 pm

aha! figured it out.
silly me - the render doesn't give same quality as export.
hehhehe...

thanks for all the help guys the tips works

Post by **Lost Marble** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:39 pm

snowflake wrote:the render doesn't give same quality as export.

What?!? They should be identical. If you select File->Render, it should look exactly the same as File->Export Animation, as long as you don't change any of the default settings for Export Animation.

snowflake · Post by **snowflake** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:37 pm

i followed postality's advice and it gave me the nice clean line when i export to jpeg with anti-alias off (all else is default).

however, since there is no anti-alias off option for simple file-->render
then i couldn't get the thin line.

hrmmm....anti-alias is useful sometimes but it would be useful having the extra off option available....

snowflake · Post by **snowflake** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:52 pm

actually, i just found another anti-alias option in 'current layer' popup options way down at bottom. never thought to look there.

however, same blurry result for the single line render.

Post by **Lost Marble** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm

snowflake wrote:actually, i just found another anti-alias option in 'current layer' popup options way down at bottom. never thought to look there.

Those options control what you see in the editing view, not the final rendered result.

Rai López · Post by **Rai López** » Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:23 am

Like seems that Moho can NOT

draw simple fine lines (scale compensation actived or not), here is my trick... Well, perhaps everybody knows about that, but if you create a shape with separate fill and outline, and you put the outline back the fill, this can be 1/2 more thin that if it would be front the fill... Only one problem with that, I´m not sure, but seems that AA in fills (or in general) desn't works so fine that in outlines, cause of this if your fill and outline are very contrasted (Write and Black f. example) the internal part of your outline could seems some PIXELATED...