Procreate to Moho best practices

[Jkoseattle]

I have an artist on hand willing to make a character for me which I can then rig up. She uses Procreate. What is the best way for me to take her Procreate file and import it into Moho? I know Procreate can't do vectors, but it can do layers, and I can use Trace Image as long as I instruct her to draw black on white line drawings only. I'm going to ask her to save as PSD, but I don't know if that's even possible. Does anyone know about how to do this?

[toddwaddington]

https://youtu.be/7QQgYBdVMKs

[Jkoseattle]

Thank you. That's the easy part. I was also wondering about whether people trace these images to get vectors or what, but I've got it working sort of now.

Now the problem is that some layers just don't want to import. I get Invalid Photoshop layer or something for a small percentage of the layers being imported. I tried several times and by doing so was eventually able to get all the layers, and can now just copy paste them into one image. Also, some layers import but their positioning is lost, so my guy is mostly there, but he has a pile of several body parts on his stomach that I have to move into position. But I'm wondering why these things are happening, and if there's anything I can do to make the import of PSD more reliable.

[Greenlaw]

I've used Procrete for Moho bitmaps. In fact, way back when I did that Hearts Like Fists Titles using Moho (around 2014 I think,) all of my bitmap art was painted in Procreate.

If you're using the Moho 13.5.5, it's very simple: just export from Procreate as a layered PSD and import that to Moho. If you're using an older version of Moho (13.0 and earlier), you can still use a layered PSD from Procreate, but I would recommend upgrading to the latest Moho because the layered PSD support was significantly improved in 13.5.5.

If you must work in an older version of Moho, I always used separate PNG files because they're easier and more reliable for updating in older versions of Moho. To breakout the PSD layers as PNG, save the file from Procreate as a layered PSD, and then use another program that has an automated 'one-click' method for exporting the layers. Here are some examples:

In Photoshop you should use the free Export Files To Layers Fast plugin. This plugin is way faster and has more options than Photoshop's native export layers command.

If you're using Krita, you can use Tools>Scripts>Export Layers. This command isn't as fancy or as capable as Export Layers To Files Fast for Photoshop but it does the job.

Once you have the layers broken out (from Photoshop or Krita,) import them to Moho for rigging. If you need to change the artwork, just run the Export Layers command in your paint program again and make sure Overwrite Files is enabled. Moho will automatically pick up the changes.

I don't think Procreate has the ability to automatically break out layers to PNG with a single command yet but if it does you should use that of course. (I'll check on that in a minute.)

This might sound like a lot but the process is really pretty simple after you've done it once or twice.

But if you don't want to bother with using another paint program to break out the layers, try importing Procreate's Layered PSD file directly. As mentioned, this is fine and even recommended if you use Moho 13.5.5, and the potential update problems will appear only if you use an older version of Moho.

Hope this helps.

[Jkoseattle]

OK, I've been messing with this all morning. Much frustration.

First I exported a layered PSD from Procreate and imported into Moho. Many of the layers didn't import. Different layers failed every time though. Opened the PSD in Photoshop and saved it out again. When importing this time I had better luck, though still a different 2-3 layers wouldn't make it in every time.

What's currently a dealbreaker though is that after messing around with the Moho project, all of a sudden layers start becoming huge and move to the center of the stage. Undoing doesn't help, and once this has happened, there's no fixing it. I tried first saving the .moho file, closing and reopening, but it wasn't long before it happened again. Here is the psd file.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Xhy1a7 ... sp=sharing

And here is the Moho file:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XiQ0hN ... sp=sharing

[Greenlaw]

That's one of the catches with using PSD from various programs: any layer types that are uniquely supported by a program (like adjustment layers) is probably readable only by that program.

In such cases, it's better to save a copy of the file and then merge those layers in the copy so you have simpler versions of the layers that Moho can read. If you do this right, the end result should look the same. I often have to do this at work when I get a layered PSD file from our art department that uses Photoshop layer types that aren't readable by After Effects. I make a copy of the file so if I need to make any edits to the artwork later, I still have the un-merged version to work from.

[Greenlaw]

Oh, I forgot to mention that when you use a layered PSD file, giving each layer a unique and sensible name while in the paint program is critical. If you don't do this, Moho might get confused when you alter the PSD file layer, like if you add, delete or merge any layers. This is because, unlike older versions of Moho, Moho 13.5.5 uses layer names to identify layers first, and then it resorts to layer IDs when it can't find the expected names.

Older versions of Moho read PSD layers by their IDs only, which is why it was so easy to break things after you imported the PSD. This is the main reason I preferred using PNG files instead; with the PNG files, Moho had to use the names, not the IDs, and when I updated the layers this way, Moho simply reloaded the updated layers.

With Moho 13.5.5, I would try making sure the layers have good naming, and merge any incompatible layers, and try that PSD file first.

If you still have trouble, try installing the export plugin I described and use the exported PNG layers instead. This method is reliable, and I used it routinely when working on various TV shows at work.

[Jkoseattle]

Nothing works. I've tried it all. Spent the whole day on it and really discouraged. I made a point to ask the artist to keep it simple, keep everything in layers and use mono-colored blocks for everything. She obliged, and even at that I STILL can't get the f***ing thing into Moho.

Making unique names for the layers did not help. I can't merge the layers before importing because I need the layers in Moho - that's kind of the point of using PSD. I installed that script and tried half a dozen times with different PNG types and dithering settings etc, but everything I tried came out looking horrible, very pixelated. And it would have a white edge around every layer regardless of the transparency/dithering options I chose..

My last recourse - I thought - was to import the original PSD 3-4 times in a row. Each copy fails on different layers, so I will eventually get all of the layers, then combine them into a single set with everything and delete the rest. However, because things would soon go haywire with the layers suddenly rendering enormous, I thought I'd spend the time it would take to first Trace Image all of them and do away with the PSD altogether. Except that Moho insists on tracing with multiple overlapping identical vectors of different colors for some reason, and also it insists on adding strokes around every shape, which the original did not have. So, I'm stuck with multiple overlapping shapes, all with strokes on them. So I can't just select the shape and remove the stroke, because there's another one right behind it. And another and another.

So I'm out of ideas and feel wholly defeated. Here's the file I'm trying to use.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XuWV8P ... sp=sharing

[lazerslab]

I wouldnt be surprised if it had to do with the fact that every layer has advanced blending modes enabled. I'm not sure how to turn that off, but I know I have had issues in the past (seldomly) with transparencies and alpha in imported bitmap images. I know Procreate has a weird way of doing this when creating .psd. I figured out workarounds for After Effects, and made some tutorials about constructing rigs in Procreate if its of any help in the future (they are for After Effects but the Procreate/Photoshop part is relevant... I occasionally use similar method for fast rigs in MOHO):



As far as this rig is concerned, I would ask your artist to resend a Psd file from procreate where they disable any blend effects, masks, etc. to see if you could disable the advanced blending on the layers.

Good Luck!

[Greenlaw]

I can't merge the layers before importing because I need the layers in Moho - that's kind of the point of using PSD.

By merging layers, I only meant layer types like Adjustment layers, clip masks, etc...basically, the layer types you shouldn't expect to work with any program outside of the source program (in this case Procreate.) When you merge these layers with the bitmap layers they're meant to affect, you should still wind up the artwork in separate layers that make sense for Moho.

To correct these situations, I often need to rearrange the layers before merging, sometimes creating duplicate effect layers (like Adjustment layers) before merging so I wind up with a version with a simplified layer structure that looks as close as possible to the original artwork. Naturally, I do this to a copy of the PSD file, so I still have the original to work from in case I mess something up. Tip: It's also helpful to write down the sequence of what you do, in case the artist provides an updated file and you need to do this again. (Ideally, the artist who created the artwork should do that but you can't always expect the artist to know what's required for another program. In this situation, you can try to educate the artist before they create the art so it's correct in the future.)

This is how you would work with any paint program that exports layered PSD (Procreate, Photoshop, Krita, etc.,) for any animation program (i.e, Moho, Ae, ToonBoom, etc.,) Certain layer types are only meaningful in the programs they were created in. Preserving these layers may cause unexpected results in the animation program.

I don't know if this is causing problems in Moho for you, but it's something to be aware of when working with files from a third party program.

Hope this helps.

[Jkoseattle]

Oh I see. Well, actually I anticipated this problem before I asked her to do this. I told her to keep it as simple as possible, no rendering layers, no masks, nothing like that. I figured what you told me might be the case and didn't want to risk anything. I have since double checked with her and she claims she didn't add anything like that.

[Greenlaw]

You know, TBH, even though I've used Procreate with Moho on a handful of projects, it was a while ago and I haven't tried with the current versions of Procreate and Moho. I'll try testing that later today if I have time and let you know if I see anything unexpected.

Update: Oh, duh...sorry, I forgot to check the file you posted. I'll look at it later today.

[Jkoseattle]

In the meantime I've decided it's just not going to happen, so I'm taking her painstakingly layered PSDs, flattening them to BMPs and importing those, these hand drawing vector layers. What this requires is for me to get good at drawing vector shapes quickly.

For those of us who have recently purchased a Surface laptop with a stylus, I'm finding that using the mouse is simply easier. Especially with my new 100% scaling. The pen is constantly creating extra points, like three all on top of each other, which takes extra time to get rid of. Using the mouse is just faster. Go figure. (Though it may be that the little nib on my stylus is worn out, which I was told would eventually happen. I need to buy new ones and try it again)

[Greenlaw]

I got to look at the art earlier, and it actually looks good to me.

Here's the art in Photoshop...



And imported into Moho...



From what I can tell, what I see in Moho is exactly what I see in Photoshop. Note: I deleted the text and background layers in Moho. They're not needed and they affect the boundary of the character.

One thing I might have done differently is to draw the character in a neutral and symmetrical pose because this makes it easier to rig and pose predictably. I'd probably use far fewer layers too, but this depends on what the character is expected to do. In general, I try not to include anything unnecessary in the rig because it can complicate the rigging process and affect rig performance during animation.

For a design like this, I would probably make the legs and arms straightened out and each merged into a single layer so I can use Smooth Joint to deform them. Smooth Joint is the easiest way to rig this kind of design and it looks great. You can see an example of how this looks in my Puss rig as demoed here:

https://vimeo.com/269815494

Smooth Joint is ideal for straight limbs that have flat textures but, as you can see in the Puss rig, Smooth Joint can sometimes work very well with textured artwork too.

Rather than having so many layers making up the character's body and layers of clothing, I would merge most of that to only what will be seen. Then for the extremes, like that hands and feet, I would use Switch Layers to switch between posed drawings. That's basically what you see going on in the Puss rig using the SBDs to control the Switches.

BTW, Puss is actually a hybrid...much of his body is painted in Photoshop but parts of him are also constructed using Vector art drawn in Moho. This is why his body, hat and head can change angles so smoothly. When using vector art, you can fill the Strokes and Fills with bitmap images using the Image Texture effect in the Styles window.

Hope this helps.

[Greenlaw]

Oh, cute art by the way.