12.5 -> 13.5 ?

[Tryll]

I've been using Moho since v5, and pretty much all through the Anime Studio years.

I paused updating at 12.5.x (pro) because I was pretty happy with it, and it is so stable. My little shop has 3 pro licenses which we use on Macs.

I know that Lost Marble has "corrected" issues from v13 when they put out 13.5, as well as adding a few new features.

Seeing as I never used 13, it seems like we're mostly talking about:

• Wind - looks nice.
  New bone type... not sure I understand it.
  Mesh deformation tools... haven't really considered the use much.

So my question for the group – is 13.5 an important upgrade beyond those features? Any improvements to drawing tools for instance?

We're about to start a new project and I want to get off on the right foot. So what do you love about 13.5 which 12.5 doesn't do? Any small improvements that make a big difference for you?

[sang820]

I've been using Moho since v5, and pretty much all through the Anime Studio years.

I paused updating at 12.5.x (pro) because I was pretty happy with it, and it is so stable. My little shop has 3 pro licenses which we use on Macs.

I know that Lost Marble has "corrected" issues from v13 when they put out 13.5, as well as adding a few new features.

Seeing as I never used 13, it seems like we're mostly talking about:

• Wind - looks nice.
  New bone type... not sure I understand it.
  Mesh deformation tools... haven't really considered the use much.

So my question for the group – is 13.5 an important upgrade beyond those features? Any improvements to drawing tools for instance?

We're about to start a new project and I want to get off on the right foot. So what do you love about 13.5 which 12.5 doesn't do? Any small improvements that make a big difference for you?

Hello, you are a loyal Moho user, and so am I. I have been using Moho for 20 years.

A-12-13.5 upgrades are free.
B-13.5 retains most of the features of version 12, and the new ones are great (like support for video, mesh upgrades, V-bones, wind).
C - If you're starting a new project, start with 13.52.

Have a nice day

[Greenlaw]

@Tryll,

A-12-13.5 upgrades are free.

Actually, the upgrade from 12.x to 13.5.2 is not free...



...but if you like using Moho 12.5, I think this is a great value. (Upgrading from Moho 13.0 to 13.5 is still free.)

The other points Sang brings are spot on. Moho 13.5.2 is a fantastic upgrade from Moho 12.5. The biggest in improvements in Moho 13.5.2 are...

Vitruvian Bones - think of this as switchable 'sub-rigs'. For example, you can use this to switch a character's from having normal shoulder-elbow-wrist joints to wiggly noodle arms, to stretchy arms, and then to wings, and then...imagine the possibilities!

Perspective Warp and Quad Meshare two new mesh types. Perspective lets you deform an image based on actual perspective rules. Quad Mesh is for more complex warping that is also easier to work with than the Triangle Mesh we have in 12.5. Additionally, we have the Smart Warp Layer, which is a dynamically editable mesh system. So, three new mesh types altogether!

Better Layered PSD support...and by that I mean WAY smarter support. For best results you still need to follow a few rules but you can now add, delete, and merge layers in your paint program and see them update more predictably inside Moho. If you use bitmap images in Moho, this improvement is significant. (Note: this is not just for Photoshop users, it works great for Krita and Clip Studio Paint users too!)

Wind Dynamics are a way to get bones to bend to wind force. I haven't used it a lot yet but I see a some fun potential in it.

Many UI improvements like easier Masking. Just right-click on a group and choose Mask Inside or Mask Outside. (One of my favorite improvements!)

A Select All Shapes button was added to the Select Shape options. This means no more 'scribbling' with the Select Shape tool to change all styles in a layer or to delete all shapes in a layer in one go. Bonus: Hayasidist contributed a handy script to 13.5.2 called Fill Quad Mesh that works great for creating quad meshes, or for quickly re-building the shapes for a quad mesh after using the Select All Shapes button and delete.

Plus a lot of bug fixes.

After upgrading, I agree with Sang that if you start a new project, you should create it in 13.5.2 to take advantage of the new features. For the most part, if you need to regress to 12.5, the files will be mostly compatible. Of course you'll lose some of the new capabilities like Vitruvian Bones and Wind, but for the most part it should be fine.

The one issue with 13.5.2 now is that some users reported instability when the Style window is docked with the Layers window, but this but will be fixed soon. In the meantime, undocking the Style window seems to prevent this crash. (FWIW, I've always kept the Style window undocked anyway...this gives you a lot more space for the Layers Window.)

These are the improvements I can think of off the top of my head. Here's the full list of features....

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0552/ ... 1621536981

Hope this helps.

[Greenlaw]

Re: Drawing tools, no improvements there in 13.5.2. I'm hoping freehand drawing gets more love in Moho 14 but it's wait and see for now.

Moho 13.0 introduced some basic bitmap tools but they were incomplete and problematic so got pulled out in 13.5. Maybe we'll see a better version of bitmap tools in the future, but for now the improved Layered PSD support makes up for losing the 13.0 tools in a big way.

[Tryll]

Big thanks for the replies.

Yes, unfortunately the upgrade would not be free, so that does influence my decision a bit.

Wind and Vitruvian bones... I'm sure I'd use them both, but I can't say I miss them right now, because I've never had them. Same for the mesh warping stuff really. They sound like great features, but I'm not hurting for them in what I'm doing. Nice, but presently not too important.

For me, the simplified masking and select all shapes button may be the most interesting improvements because they would help with general use in our current workflows. I guess I have to determine if that is worth the price of 3 upgrades.

[synthsin75]

Enough people on Mac have had problems with 13.5 that I wouldn't trust it to production on Mac without a trial run. I'd be apt to get one license to test out, while still doing production on 12.5. Then if I decide 13.5 is stable enough and has enough needed features, I'd buy more licenses for production.

[Greenlaw]

I agree with Synthsin75: if having a stable version is critical and you don't need the new features, it does make sense to stick with it Moho 12.5. I use Moho 13.5.2 for all my personal work but I still mainly use 12.5 for work work.

That said, Moho 13.5.2 has been very solid on my two computers at home (plus on my child Sienna's computer,) and I've been pushing to get our team at work updated to Moho 13.5.2. But we're probably going to wait till the next release for its anticipated stability fix.

Apart from the stability issue, I'd say the big reasons to upgrade now are to use Vitruvian Bones, the new Mesh Warp options, and the improved PSD support...everything else is a bonus.

I suggest downloading the demo version of Moho 13.5.2 and trying it out. You can install the Moho 13.5.2 demo and still keep Moho 12.5 running on your computer. If you find the new features useful, they may save your team enough time to make it worth the $450 to upgrade 3 licenses.

BTW, if you decide to stick with 12.5, you can functionally replicate what Vitruvian Bones does in Moho 12.5 using Victor's old 'switch bones' trick. The switch bones technique is more work to set up than Vitruvian Bones but it works very well. I used this method routinely for a few years until we got Vitruvian Bones. (That said, having used Vitruvian Bones, I don't want to switch back to the old method now.)

[synthsin75]

Personally, I'm more than happy with the stability of 13.5, but I'm on Windows, so Mac mileage may vary.

[Lukas]

Moho runs stable on macOS over here, as long as you keep the style window undocked until that bug has been patched