Switching from TB harmony to ASP, small studio

[karip]

Hi AS forum,

I’m Kari from Pyjama Films and we’re making a pilot for a series this spring.

At the moment we’re using toon boom harmony for a short film and were doing a mixture between cut out and FBF. I’ve found that rigging and using rigged characters in harmony is not the most fluid thing. That’s why I’m investigating for an alternative.

I started learning ASP on monday and by wednesday I was able (through many great and clear tutorials) produce a working and quite decent rig version 1. So this alone tells me that the software is more intuitive and the resources to learn it are out there. Also the forum seems very active, responsive and personal.

Through tutorials, I managed to understand smart bone dials, target bones, bone constraints, dynamic bones, smooth bone joint and this flexi binding thing which was a bit tricky.

I’m sure that with some more time I can take it so much further. This pilot will most likely use the same technique with mixing cut out and FBF. It also seems that this can be done in ASP. I saw a tutorial from Chuck Kenway (bursting watermelon) where he showed a way to use reference layers to organize FBF workflow. So I think drawing FBF could be also done inside ASP.



However the biggest questions I still want to think about are connected to file management.
How to manage the files with, lets say 5 to 10 animators through a server?

I got the idea that all the ASP licenses have their own content library. Can it be shared? Or can I make a shared project library where everybody could pull characters to their scenes and put new hands etc. into?

In the beginning, I want to be in a situation where all my files are in a server and everybody can call up on characters, props or whatever we need and nothing gets weird.

in harmony i think it’s a clear system that all the project materials are inside the project folder. This way I could give this folder anybody, and they can start working with it with no fear that any material is missing due to a link (reference).
Is this the case with ASP as well? If not by default, can I make it the case?

I made a test, drew everything from reference inside ASP and it seemed to work in a different computer when opened from the server. However there are some posts in the forum that warned about moving folders, it could potentially cause a lot of trouble.
I don’t know if this is the situation still, it’s not that long ago, but maybe things are fixed?


Any other tips to set up a server based, shared working environment? (with not too much technical [new software, plugins or the like] info yet, I have to understand how to make it work in it’s simplest form)


I think I have more questions, but I can’t remember them now. I’ll start with this and if there is any response, I’ll dare to throw in more questions if I can’t find a clear answer by myself.

Next week we’ll discuss what to do with the software, should we go the TB way, which we already kind of know, or are we brave enough to introduce a completely new software and workflow to our small team.

I appreciate all the help
Kari

[slowtiger]

Hi Kari,

I've worked on AS projects from different studios, so here's how they did it:

1. You definitely need a server, and this server needs a strong backup solution. (Some people forget this point!) Since you already run a studio I assume this point solved.

2. You need a well-organised directory structure, and you must not change this during production. Again, I think you already know this.

Server structures I've seen usually look like this:

Code: Select all

overall project directory (if you have more than one project/series on that server)
- general (stuff used in all episodes)
- - characters
- - - character 1
- - - character 2
- - - - pedro.anme
- - - - pedro_night_version.anme
- - - - pedro_superhero_version.anme
- - - - textures/images for character 2
- - - brushes
- - props
- - BGs
- - - home inside
- - - home outside
- - - generic streets
- episode 1
- episode 2
- - ep1 sc 1
- - ep1 sc 2
- - - ep1sc1_160303.anme
- - - ep1sc1_160303_1_an.anme (animator's name)

An animator's drive looks like this:

Code: Select all

overall project directory (if you have more than one project/series on that server)
- general (stuff used in all episodes)
- - - brushes
- - BGs
- - - home inside
- - - home outside
- - - generic streets
- episode 2
- - ep1 sc 1
- - ep1 sc 2
- - - ep1sc1_160303.anme
- - - ep1sc1_160303_1_an.anme (animator's name)

As you see, you also need a naming convention, and stick to it. The character folders hold the .anme files as well as the related images for them, so it's possible to copy a character folder onto an animator's drive while maintaining the relative paths. Updates and additions can be done easily.

All file names must be 7bit ASCII - no blanks, no special characters, no Umlaute or accents! Although we are in 2016 now, mixed computer setups still tend to create havoc with this.

3. You should assign 1 person (and a backup person) to take care of rigging, create character versions, and import the correct character versions into all the scene .anme files. This way the animators don't have to bother about which charcter version to use (and make mistakes). Only this person should be allowed to hand out scenes. (Sounds like a production manager's task.)

In general, animators shouldn't add stuff into their scenes directly from the server by themselves. If you're really paranoid about this, you could restrict access to certain directories.

4. Animators must rename files immediately. They should save locally while animating, then after each day (or when finished) transfer their file into the scene folder on the server.

5. I haven't worked with the new feature of referencing stuff. It might work, however, I found that mistakes have bigger impact in a reference system than without it.

By following this you should avoid most of the trouble, I think. Feel free to ask more questions.

[karip]

Thanks Slowtiger,

We have quite a good backup system, every minute or so all the changes in the server gets mirrored to another location. And we’re not working locally at the moment. We have 4 animators working on the short film and everybody is working straight to the server. There’s no need to download things locally and everything seems to work smooth. No performance issues with Harmony. This way also the animator doesn’t have to have a separate time machine to back up the work of the day. (But I didn’t set this up, we have a tech guy who knows a lot more than me)

So this solution you are referring to is not connected to the content library of AS at all?

You’re talking about a arranged folder structure in Finder f.ex, that just is placed in the server?

And you’re meaning that the scene could be layed out to the animator, so they don’t have to pull anything from the characters, props or bg:s? (which sounds all the way logical. With this short film we didn't have time to do this, backgrounds were done just before the animator got their hands on some scenes. It works because the team isn't that big. Everybody built their own scenes on their own.)

Do you also mean, that the scene has all the backgrounds and props, even though they are not reacting with the character? Does that create any performance issues? Is this a common way, or do AS animators mostly compose bg:s in a different software?

What about reusing animation? What if somebody creates a nice walk and we want to use that later, can version 1 and version 2 characters use the same action?

Kari

[slowtiger]

I don't use the content library because I feel I have more control over assets on a file system level. Others might disagree here, especially those who already used it.

Handing out complete scenes to the animator makes a lot of sense in any production environment larger than, say 5 people. This way only the production manager is responsible for mistakes, and the animators can trust that they got the correct assets.

I found it very comfortable to animate over a complete BG. If performance should be an issue one can always switch off visibility of some layers temporarily.

I've never seen a production with BGs done in AS. Doing those in a bitmap application gives much more choices in design and is quite faster. Even if your style would call for BGs done in AS I'd create them in separate files, then render as bitmaps and import nto scenes, for obvious animating and rendering speed reasons.

You can import animation from any existing anme file into another. It only needs to be on the top layer level. Again, I recommend to leave this to the production manager, to avoid confusion and duplicate work.

[karip]

All right, good information, thank you.

I still feel like I need to get more info on the content library and it's usages. If anybody knows how to use it with a team, or the problems it might cause, let me know.

I'll try to go over the workflow what we might have and ask here if I get some big questions.

Thanks,
Kari

[synthsin75]

This topic seems to show success using the AS library over a server: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17058

Might ask him about any specifics not mentioned.

[karip]

Hello,

Thanks for the link! I wrote to Lukas, maybe he has some more info.

thanks,
Kari

[wizaerd]

I'm curious about some of the reasons you're looking to move from Harmony to Anime Studio, because I've been tossing around the idea of moving in the opposite direction. I love the SmartBones, and bones in general, especially re-parenting and target bones, however I find the rigging process in Anime Studio to be a PITA most times, when it decides to work. Complex characters, with a great many shapes and/or points is cumbersome to go through the binding process sometimes, then creating all the necessary smartbones to correct joints, and point placement is just a PITA for me. I've been thinking with the ease of the Bone Deformations that rigging in Harmony would be easier, where I can spend more time in animating than rigging. Personally, I find rigging to be a necessary evil, but I'd much rather be actually animating as opposed to rigging and then tweaking ad nauseum.

[karip]

I haven't been using Harmony for so long that I would know it inside out. I was first introduced to it about 3 years ago, when I was a part of a production for a series. There was as a guy who came from Canada to teach us that for 4 weeks. Before we switched to Harmony, we made the pilot with After Effects and I rigged characters there with basic copy/paste expression (Daniel Gies) and maybe Duik at that time. So I was accustomed to IK and wanted to use it for the legs for easy and quick manipulation. I knew that in Harmony there is a IK possibility, i tried to learn it, but .. I don't, know, the logic was something that was really hard to get a grip from.

Also when I managed finally to use it, somehow, I noticed that when animating the IK, the leg part started drifting. So I assumed it didn't calculate the IK properly. But when I looked further, there was an actual button dedicated to counter this drift by hitting keys into every frame to keep the leg from drifting. I was thinking: "They didn't know how to make it, and that's why they made this button." Didn't seem very convincing at the time. I don't know if it's working at the moment, I haven't checked.

In the end we didn't use the IK, and just went the old way, animate the legs by hand so they fit. Not a big deal, it worked. Everybody learned pretty quickly to animate with it.

Also another thing from After effects background. I learned to use simple expression to connect layers to each other so their translation speed could be varied. To clarify, if there's a Null object that controls the eye and the nose - eye goes speed 1, the nose gets its translation multiplied by 1.2. Simple stuff, and you get something like 2,5d thing going on. I tried to make this work in Harmony but it just seemed impossible. After couple of years I found out that in Harmony there is a possibility to use expressions, but it was so complex that I didn't want to go that route.

Selecting the layer: B, B, B, oh.. shift B, shift B. Maybe it's just about the rig or the inexperience, but this way of selecting the layer, I just find I lose track and focus.

All these experiences seem to add up and I just don't want to play too much with Harmony rigging and animating rigged characters. I feel that it can't take me far enough. Maybe that's the whole point. And in contrary to you, I want to rig. I like it. I mainly animate and I want to make a logical tool that I, or anybody else, can take and dive with into the animating phase. I never felt this sense of flow with animating a harmony rig. Again, it could be just us, not being able to produce a rig that's easy to work with.

And to add, I like it's vector FBF capabilities and it's working for me. I managed to build quite a nice workflow and I know I can make it even better. So that part is working nicely and I can say that it's even good. You can find nice ways to color your frames with the overlay-underlay options.

But with the experience what I got now in the past week from AS, I learned to rig a simple character in two days without any prior knowledge how to do it. It worked and I felt exited because I seemed to find the tools that were needed. There is still some funny things about the binding part, flexi binding, point binding and friends. Like how to add flexi binding, or how to remove it. You have to select the right layer so it works. Or what order to select when you want to remove it. This kind of stuff can be confusing, I'm sure. You just seem to have to know.

All and all, I think the heart of the thing is for me - I have to feel it's nice to animate the character. And the first tests with AS gave me some results that are hinting that I could like it more than Harmony.

But all this stuff, it's personal and emotional. I don't even know all the things that are effecting me or my decisions. But it's nice to learn new software, and if we end up using AS, we'll find the ways. And after half a year, we know a lot more.