Bind Layer: occasional problem

[tonym]

Hi, Tony here. I have a problem with the Bind Layer tool. Sometimes it grabs some points from another layer beyond the layer it's supposed to be binding. I don't know why it does this, or how to release those points. It forces me to rearrange my vector shapes and move them far apart (to end overlapping), and use the Offset Bone when I don't want to.

What's weird is sometimes the Bind Layer tool does not grab points from another layer, even when the stacked vector art overlaps a bit.

If it matters, I have the Bone Layer set on Region, and have toned down the bone strength of each bone.

What's going on? Any tips? Advice? I'd sure love it if Bind Layer would only grab one layer.

Tony M

[Lost Marble]

First, are you actually talking about the Bind Points tool? You mentioned binding points, but the Bind Layer tool binds entire layers to bones.

Either way, neither of these tools is capapble of working on layers other than the currently selected layer. I don't think it's possible that you are binding multiple layers at once. Is it possible that you thought you were working on one layer, but had a different layer selected by accident?

[tonym]

I'm 99.5% sure I've been using the Bind Layer tool and not the Bind Points tool by mistake. I've never used the Bind Points tool for anything, so I'm not likely to click on it by habit. And I'm careful to click where I want to click.

This is what happens, LostMarble. I have a leg divided into three vector layers: upper leg, lower leg, and foot. These are in a Bone Group.

I add one bone for each part. Then I change to Region and decrease Bone Strength. Then I choose the Bind Layer tool. Then I select a vector layer and click on the bone placed for that layer. I do that for all three layers, binding a bone to each layer.

Then I test out the rig by choosing Manipulate Bones. The leg moves and works correctly. Clearly a layer is bound to each bone the way I wanted, so I must being doing the process right. However, unfortunately there are also points on a separate layer simultaneously bound to the bone. So when I move the foot, it moves, but also a few points from the lower leg layer are also moving...which ruins everything, as those points distort and stretch the shape to which they belong.

I'm using Moho 5.2.1 on a newer Mac running OS 10.3

Tony M

[tonym]

I just tried to duplicate the problem, and I discovered something interesting.

I made a new rig with a body and a 3-part left leg and tested it. The Bind Layer tool worked fine and the leg bent perfectly. Then I used Cut and Paste to duplicate the left thigh to make a right thigh, and used Duplicate Layer twice, to make the right lower leg and foot from the left leg's parts. (I did this to make sure both legs are identical, and to save time.)

Then I tested the left leg again using the Manipulate Bones tool, and the character was messed up. Now when I move the left leg, points are being moved in the right leg, despite the fact that the the three vector layers containing the right leg are distinct from the left leg.

Do you think copied and duplicated points are maintaining a kind of attachment to their layer of origin?

Note: I have not put any bones in the R leg yet.

Tony M

[Lost Marble]

Can you post the Moho file somewhere and provide a link to it? Or, you can email it to support@lostmarble.com and I'll take a look. Something funny is going on, but it's hard to tell without seeing the file.

[tonym]

I e-mailed it to your support address.

Thanks,
Tony

[tonym]

Thanks for the emailed reply, LostMarble!
PROBLEM SOLVED! PROBLEM SOLVED! PROBLEM SOLVED!

Thanks a million,
Tony M

[7feet]

What was the problem?

[tonym]

What was the problem?

In a nutshell, my problem started by not understanding the following: Duplicate Layer used on vector art that has been bound to a layer via Bind Layer, will also duplicate the bone-relationship from the original layer.

It's not an easy problem to solve by yourself, I think, because you don't see the bone on the duplicated layer.

Tony M

[Lost Marble]

...because you don't see the bone on the duplicated layer.

Well, there is no bone in the duplicated layer. The bones live in the bone layer, and you duplicated a vector layer. So, the binding relationship was duplicated as well, but no new bones were created in the duplication process.

You can tell which bone a layer is bound to by activating the Bind Layer tool. The bone the layer is bound to will become selected. You can then switch between layers, and you will see right away which bone each is bound to.

[tonym]

I just tried what you just wrote, and it didn't work for me. I used the same MOHO file I sent you yesterday. If you still have it, choose the Bind Layer tool and click on the "R foot" layer and it won't highlight a bone. Same for "R Upper leg".

It worked on the other layers, though.

Tony M

[tonym]

I just reported this problem with the Bind Layer tool occasionally not highlighting a bone to the Bug Report forum.

Um...assuming it is a bug. And not my fault somehow.

I figure, when you're in a debugging mood, you go there looking for stuff to do.

If it is a bug, please let me know so I'll know it's not something weird I did without realizing it.



Tony M

[Lost Marble]

The problem with your file is that some of the layers were bound to bones, and some weren't. The Bind Layer tool is acting correctly - it's just that in the file you sent, those two layers are not bound to any bone.

I don't know if you duplicated them before binding (in which case the duplicates would not be bound), or if you un-bound them after duplicating (maybe by accident). Whatever you did, these two layers were not bound to any bone in the file you sent me. Hence, the Bind Layer tool should not (and does not) highlight any bone.

[tonym]

Dang, this is complicated.
Just when I think I've got a handle on it, the handle breaks off.

Oh well. Should the problem come up again, I totally know how to fix it now, and that's the main thing.

Thanks, Lost Marble!

Tony M