9.5 Pro: Simple Skeleton won't work - why?

[exile]

For some reason, I can't get layers and bones connected after messing around with the settings. Even after taking all the layers out of the bone layer, erasing it, creating a new bone layer and putting the layers of the character in it didn't help. The arms and the left leg work as they should after applying the new feature "use selected ones for flexi-binding." I can't connect torso and head bones to the layers of my figure, and the bones for the right leg move only the foot. I don't think I did anything different with the right and the left legs.

The file can be downloaded at http://singadream.com/forumfriends.htm

Would really appreciate some help, it would be a pain to completely start over with this half-finished scene.

Steve

[slowtiger]

Have you tried "Release Layer" and "Release Points" from the Animation menu?

[exile]

Have you tried "Release Layer" and "Release Points" from the Animation menu?

Hi Tiger, that answer was fast indeed. Yes, I tried that and think that might be the problem. Now the layers won't respond at all. At one point, all parts moved except the neck, I kept trying to start over by releasing and then binding layers, now it's so messed up I can't get back to the initial state.

[Víctor Paredes]

On each vector layer with the problem, select all the points and then go to Bone>Flexi-Bind Points.
You also have a problem with the hierarchy of the left arm. It's child of the right forearm instead of the chest.

[exile]

Thanks, Selgin, that's what it took. The arms and legs move perfectly. The only problem now is that the head gets pulled out of shape a little bit when I move the bone attached to it, and the torso gets pulled by the arm. With bone strength adjustment, it's not too bad for this figure, it doesn't do any energetic movements. But for the future I'd like to know if there's a solution to this, also.

[heyvern]

You were on the right track with "Use Selected Bones for Flexi Binding" earlier in your description.

Select only the body bones you want to control the torso, select the torso layer and then ""Use Selected Bones for Flexi Binding". This will work for the head as well.

[exile]

You were on the right track with "Use Selected Bones for Flexi Binding" earlier in your description.

Select only the body bones you want to control the torso, select the torso layer and then ""Use Selected Bones for Flexi Binding". This will work for the head as well.

For some reason it got messed up on the first try, and Animé Studio seems to cause problems after that happens (I still don't know what went wrong in the first place). In any case, I could improve the character's movements by selecting points with the "offending" bone (that pulled the torso out of shape) selected and "release points". Quite a workaround, not ideal, but better than nothing.

[heyvern]

Yes there is a glitch with "use selected bones.." Sometimes it's get all discombobulated.

You need to select bones on the layer and choose "use selected bones..." again on that layer to "release" the layers points. It sort of gets "stuck".

[exile]

Yes there is a glitch with "use selected bones.." Sometimes it's get all discombobulated.

You need to select bones on the layer and choose "use selected bones..." again on that layer to "release" the layers points. It sort of gets "stuck".

Thanks again, Vern, it's finally working as it should. When I tried to just re-do the (new 9.5) option of selective layer binding, for some reason that layer does not move at all with the bone. but I followed up by flexi-binding all the points of that layer to that bone, then it finally worked. I'm still not 100% sure what the different commands in the Bone menu accomplish, but at least there's a solution to this problem. I'd never have found it on my own, many thanks to you three experts.

- Steve

[synthsin75]

Yes there is a glitch with "use selected bones.." Sometimes it's get all discombobulated.

You need to select bones on the layer and choose "use selected bones..." again on that layer to "release" the layers points. It sort of gets "stuck".

There is no "glitch" here. You just need to understand what takes precedence.

Points or layers can be released, bound to one bone, or flexi-bound to all bones.

Just as parent bone layers are always evaluated before their child layers, so it is that "Use Selected Bones For Flexi-Binding" takes precedence, but only for flexi-bound elements (hence the name). It wouldn't make much sense for "Use Selected Bones For Flexi-Binding" to undo/alter any other binding method.

And once "Use Selected Bones For Flexi-Binding" is set you must use "Use All Bones For Flexi-Binding" to remove the bone selection for that layer.

[heyvern]

Holy totally embarassing senior moment Batman!

Synthsin is 100% absolutely correct!!! I am a complete idiot!
It makes sense now. Once you get it in your head it makes sense.

I made a mistake calling this a "glitch".

Some confusion can occur if you forget which layers you've assigned to a subset of bones. There is no visual indication that a layer is only being influenced by a selected set of bones. This is what happened to me which made me confused

Once you set a layer to use a selected set of bones you could forget you did this and become confused later on as you add bones new bones can't understand why these bones seem to have no effect on points in some layers. The key to this is making absolutely certain to make a mental note when using the "Use selected bones for flexi-binding" command.

I kept thinking that simply using the top menu command Flexi-Bind Points would override the Use Selected Bones for Flexi-Binding. But that is not what what you would want at all.

Phew! What a relief.

As Wes said, once you understand this it makes sense.

[synthsin75]

Some confusion can occur if you forget which layers you've assigned to a subset of bones. There is no visual indication that a layer is only being influenced by a selected set of bones. This is what happened to me which made me confused

Yeah, lack of any visual indicator is the only real potential problem with this feature. You have to either remember what you did or suss out which bones are used by what they seem to influence (which can be difficult with a lot of bones and flexi-binding).

Two possible solutions that I can think of off hand. One, have a bone menu command to highlight flexi-bound bones for the selected layer.

Two, modify the bind layer tool to act more like the bind points tool. Right now the bind layer tool simply has to click a bone to bind it, but if you had to hit spacebar or the bind button, like the bind points tool, it could be used to show flexi-bound bones. Sort of like the bind points tool shows which points are bound by selecting the bone, the bind layer tool could show which bones are bound/flexi-bound for the selected layer. If only one bone were highlighted, it really wouldn't matter if the layer was layer bound or flexi-bound, as either would behave the same.

[exile]

And once "Use Selected Bones For Flexi-Binding" is set you must use "Use All Bones For Flexi-Binding" to remove the bone selection for that layer.

I also tried that in my wild attempts to solve the problem. But then other layers reacted weirdly. When the Use Selected Bones for Flexi-Binding command - for whatever reason - didn't do what I expected, and the bone I had selected had no control whatsoever of the selected layer, flexi-binding the points in that layer to that bone did the trick. I don't understand why the Flexi-Binding command didn't work properly before I did this, but I'm happy to finally have something that worked.

Maybe the initial problem arose because I tried selecting the head group layer instead of all the individual layers in it. In any case, thanks to all for your help with my teething problems.

Steve

[heyvern]

Yeah, lack of any visual indicator is the only real potential problem with this feature. You have to either remember what you did or suss out which bones are used by what they seem to influence (which can be difficult with a lot of bones and flexi-binding).

... modify the bind layer tool to act more like the bind points tool. Right now the bind layer tool simply has to click a bone to bind it, but if you had to hit spacebar or the bind button, like the bind points tool, it could be used to show flexi-bound bones. Sort of like the bind points tool shows which points are bound by selecting the bone, the bind layer tool could show which bones are bound/flexi-bound for the selected layer. If only one bone were highlighted, it really wouldn't matter if the layer was layer bound or flexi-bound, as either would behave the same.

Yes, I think a "Use selected bones" tool is needed to give feedback. Probably adding it to the "Bind layer" tool would do the trick. Click the tool on a layer and it shows all the bones used for that layer.

It's a simple counting of bones, if more than one bone is selected the bind layer tool works the same way, except it's "flexi-binding" points on the layer to multiple bones. If one bone is selected it just binds the entire layer to the bone just as before.

In reality "Use selected bones" isn't a "brand new feature" on its own it's really an ENHANCEMENT to the bind layer feature and could simply use that tool. This would make "realeasing" layers easier. Just like binding a layer with the bind layer tool, just "click off" with the tool to "release" the bones from the layer and it goes back to normal.

[synthsin75]

Yeah, Vern, that would definitely be an easier mod, although it just occurred to me that a tool cannot "do something" simply due to a layer change, unless you put the code to execute (highlight used bones) in the IsEnabled function (which I've done before with success).