Body movement as if it were in 3d

[jackson bruno]

Hello, I'm back to start my studies in Anime Studio, today I came across a serious problem, and I really wanted to make this animation.

My question is, how to make an animation where the camera rotates around the character or how he moves his hands moving, summarizing.

How to rotate around the character he turning face or raising hands. Do you have any tutorial? hugs!

[AmigaMan]

I think, honestly, if you want "Body movement as if it were in 3D" then I'd advise using 3D software. You can do certian things more easily in Anime studio now with features such as Smart Bones and there's plenty of information and tutorials you could view by searching this forum. However, full, smooth rotations of character's are still complicated to set up and, as I say, it's easier just to use 3D software to start with if you need lots of shots like that. Can't you just storyboard your scene so that you can cut to different shots and angles of your character? Why do you have to rotate around the character?

[ErikAtMapache]

That's certainly an interesting challenge. You can do it with smart bones but the set-up time is substantial. You may also want to take a page from our old friends in the 2D gaming world such as Doom, where they actually drew the same character from different angles and played it in sequence (aka. Frame-by-frame animation). Another possibility you might consider is to use a 3D background (rotating) that is toon-rendered and overlay your 2D animation on it. That might give you a good spinning feeling. For the raising arms part, smart bones would probably be pretty good. I've been creating a new character and I'm finding that they work well, but things can get problematic if you have one vector layer controlled by two connected smart bones (i.e. one arm controlled by two bones). It tends to be difficult to keep the points from interfering with each other. In my case I solved it by having two vector layers for each limb.
Good luck

[heyvern]

I'll give you a different "spin" on this topic (forgive the pun).

My background was 3D for a long time. Working in 3D is exponentially more difficult than 2D but a lot of the work in 3D is done ahead of time, before animating. Although more difficult, it's a similar process but has the benefit of character models that can easily be rotated, turned to any angle, and all of the nit picky details of "layering" and display of parts behind and in front are handled for you automatically without any special effort needed. With 3D you simply pose the character. You don't have to worry if the arm layer is in front or behind the body.

With that type of expectation, switching to 2D can be difficult. I still struggle not having the ability to create characters that can be posed at any angle, turned to any position easily. I often try to design as much flexibility into the 2D character design in Anime Studio so I can animate "on the fly" instead of sticking to a tight storyboard.

2D is both easier and harder than 3D. It's easier because it's 2D of course, but at the same time you have to "draw everything". if you want a different view and don't have it, you have to draw it or create a way to achieve it. Just a simple thing like turning the body of a character is a challenge in 2D that you never have with 3D.

The key to 2D from my experience, that I am trying to learn is to stick to a story board, to know what you need and what you don't need, and then design everything to that requirement. This way you don't have to spend so much effort creating every aspect of a character before you think you might need it. The beauty of full 3D is that the character is designed by default to have every conceivable angle covered without extra effort.

If you have one tiny short scene that requires a complicated turn or 3D effect than create that one special scene just for that, even as suggested you simply just draw this frame by frame. Or maybe you can fake it without needing to create a full body turn.

I have struggled with this. It's really hard not having that full 3D control to do whatever I need "on the fly" as you would be able to do with 3D. So many really really awesome talented animators are soooo lucky because they have that strong 2D background FIRST. Learning from that "limitation" is a huge bonus.

I have to learn to let go of the "3D", or at least to simply learn to fake it without it having to be perfect.

[jackson bruno]

Thanks to everyone for the tips.
Got it all, and my goal is the same 2d, 3D is something beyond my means at the moment, I think a lot in VUE for scenarios, but it is also another situation! I asked that question to you why I've seen some videos of animations with Anime Studio where spins with perfect bodies are very clear that far from 3D programs, but even so it was something interesting. So I think the more correct way is actually drawing scene by scene to get that spinning sensation as in 3D, but Anime Studio does not have at least some tool to facilitate? so it is not possible to draw the drawing by drawing anything?

[slowtiger]

so it is not possible to draw the drawing by drawing anything?

Uhm ... what?

[jackson bruno]

frame by frame ^^

[DK]

If you are referring to a 3D type character flyaround?????? Yes you can do it in AS It's just complicated.
I would start by using a 3D setup in AS with an x plane and having the character upright facing the camera on the z plane with the character layer set to "Face Camera", then do your flyaround and try to match the camera flyaround to a smartbone character rotation setup.
Just ideas.

Oh wait? Has anyone ever tried that before?It sounds cool

D.K

[slowtiger]

A lot is possible in AS without drawing frame-by-frame. I estimate you need at least 8 complete models, for front, 3/4 front, side, 3/4 back, back, and the other side again. Some work can be saved by copy and mirror some elements, but the walk itself can't. Also the amount of work depends on the perspective you use. If you show the character from above, you'll only need 1 view and 1 walk cycle.

This is so much effort for just one scene that I wouldn't want to do it myself. I'd ask if this movement is really necessary to tell the story - like having a prisoner walk in a circle - and then I'd still avoid showing the whole character doing a full circle walk. Instead I'd break up the scene in several shots:



1 shows close-ups with a panning BG. You can improve the impression of walking in a circle by using a cylindrical perspective on the BG (and this new projection feature of AS).
2 shows the view from above.
3 shows the standard solution: just zoom in enough to put the difficult portions outside camera view.

[AmigaMan]

What you are intending to do is possible but there comes a point where you have to decide if the effort is worth it when your audience wouldn't miss a shot like that if it wasn't there.
This is a turnaround of a character I created. It's not meant to be an animation as such but shows all the angles I created for the character.



You could create more 'inbetweens' to make it apear smooth enough for the shot you described.

I did manage to have the character run round in a circle using these rigged views.



However, when a storyboard recently called for the character's to swing each other around, even though the rest of the video was 2D, I decided to create the character's in 3D and toon render it for the one shot...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/720 ... 0Small.mp4

It really depends on the complexity of your character's. If you could show us your character designs and exactly what you want to achieve then we could probably advise on the best way to accomplish your shot.

[jackson bruno]

I am grateful that I am acquiring such knowledge with all of you, I am learning a lot and now I understand that some scenes are quite complex and sometimes are not done with just one person, but a great team. Perhaps many people have their dreams and idealizations, mine is doing anime, like the Japanese, but I find great difficulty, I rely a lot on Bleach, Dragon Ball Z and others, and today I know that there were hours and hours with a large team, but also have seen that the simplest animations are fantastic and made by a single person, and this scene I quoted the rotating camera, I saw in a GOKU the announcement of new movie BATTLE OF GODS, the camera rotates around him rising and grabbing his face, I think there was made by FRAME FRAME!

When the video comes at 0:20 the camera is in the mountains and I believe that it is in 3D, then rises and rotates around GOKU

Please see this link and tell how may have done all this, hugs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR7GBVLPCOg

[sbtamu]

In that video, the camera is only going around him about 1/4 of a complete rotation then the back ground moves while the character faces the camera (it goes from a camera to the camera and character spinning on a common pivot point.) This could be done with Smart Bones and just taking the time (hrs and hrs) to get it set up right. But, it is very doable.

[AmigaMan]

Yes, you're correct, the mountains are 3D. I'm not sure exactly how they did it but if I was doing it I'd have a 3D placeholder of my character in place in the shot. This would be fine for most of the shot as it appears as just a silhouette in the distance. The 3D character could be used as a guide for the 2D animation when the camera is in closer. The turning of the character is frame by frame, as you said but, as with most Anime, it's not particularly smooth so easily achievable I think, as Sbtamu pointed out.

[jackson bruno]

Interesting explanations of you, very enlightening, I just do not understand how you know so much about this use of smart bones, is something new in Anime Studio 9.5? classes could show me how to do something? thanks again and whenever you make something interesting I'll post here for you to evaluate, I am working daily with my projects, I am Brazilian and here the situation for those who want to work in animation is extremely complicated, and very complicated. Thank you all for your kindness and patience.