Strange Bone movements

[hammerjammer]

Hello Everyone.
I've been having this issue with the bones on the arm of a robot I'm making.
I have never experienced this type of problem on the many arms or legs that I have created and rigged before.

I only have two bones on each arm 1) Upper arm & 2) the forearm.... None, for the hands.

The problem arises when I use the "Manipulate Bones" tool to move the Forearm. If I move just the Forearm from is starting position everything works as I would expect. BUT, If I first move the Upper arm bone To some position and then try to move the Forearm, the Upper arm will snap back to its starting position(which is at the robots side).

In fact, now that I think about it. When I use the "Manipulate bones" tool to move the Forearm the whole arm(Upper arm & Forearm) SHOULD be moving as well. But they are not. I guess I should have just said that in the first place. Anyway.

On a side note, The bones ARE parented properly and I do NOT have the Upper arm bone LOCKED.
Also, I have 2 smart bone Actions created for the Forearm. These are meant to fix elbow joint problems during movement of the forearm.

I wonder......... Mmmmmmm...

OK..................... NOW I'M REALLY CONFUSED !!!

I have been trying different things as I was typing this post and Just for the hell of it, I DELETED the 2 smart bone actions that were for the Forearm and now there is no longer any movement problems with the Upper arm & the Forearm. The problem when away. WTF.

Any help would be so awesome right now. Why is this happening? Why does having Smart bone actions on the forearm affect the overall movement of the arm?

Thanks..... Hammerjammer

[neeters_guy]

It sounds like there is an unwanted keyframe in the upper arm bone. Try recreating the smart bone action being careful not to keyframe another bone in the process.

[hammerjammer]

It sounds like there is an unwanted keyframe in the upper arm bone. Try recreating the smart bone action being careful not to keyframe another bone in the process.

I tried deleting and recreating smart bones and all keyframes for them as you suggested. Still, the same result.

However, I did find that if I create a smart bone action for the parent bone as well,
(Parent bone--I think that's the right term) , then it all works properly. This to me doesn't seam right though, I shouldn't have to do that. Do you agree?

I was trying to post a picture as well to make this easier, but cant figure out how to do that.
Technology is supposed to make our life's easier. Ya right!

Anyway thanks for response.

Hammerhammer

[heyvern]

If you can post the actual file that would be the best way to see what's wrong.
I recreated the project as you described and couldn't recreate the issue.

I created two arm bones (bicep, forearm).
I created two SB actions for the forearm.
I used the Manipulate Bones tool on the forearm and bicep with no problems. The Bicep does not "snap" as you described.

My best guess is what was already suggested by neeters_guy, a key frame in the forearm smart bone action for the bicep bone. However I added in a rotation key for the bicep bone (wrong bone) in the forearm SB action and it was much worse than explained. The bicep bone would spin around like crazy when trying to rotate the forearm bone.

An image of the movement won't help much. Need to see the actual file to check your actions.

The "key" to smart bones is ONLY rotating the bone for that action ONLY. It's the only advice I can come up with. I keep trying to recreate these situations where people have problems with strange bone rotations involving manipulate bone tool and smart bones, and I just can't see the problems until I see the file and then it's usually extra keys on the wrong bone in one of the smart bone actions.

[hammerjammer]

If you can post the actual file that would be the best way to see what's wrong.
I recreated the project as you described and couldn't recreate the issue.

I created two arm bones (bicep, forearm).
I created two SB actions for the forearm.
I used the Manipulate Bones tool on the forearm and bicep with no problems. The Bicep does not "snap" as you described.

My best guess is what was already suggested by neeters_guy, a key frame in the forearm smart bone action for the bicep bone. However I added in a rotation key for the bicep bone (wrong bone) in the forearm SB action and it was much worse than explained. The bicep bone would spin around like crazy when trying to rotate the forearm bone.

An image of the movement won't help much. Need to see the actual file to check your actions.

The "key" to smart bones is ONLY rotating the bone for that action ONLY. It's the only advice I can come up with. I keep trying to recreate these situations where people have problems with strange bone rotations involving manipulate bone tool and smart bones, and I just can't see the problems until I see the file and then it's usually extra keys on the wrong bone in one of the smart bone actions.

Hi Heyvern
I would be glad to post the file, I have no secrets. However, I cant for the life of me figure out how to do that.
You mentioned above that "The key to smartbones is only rotating the bone for that action only".
I thought of that too. So I LOCKED the bicep bone to keep it from moving before I made the action. That didn't work either.
I'm sure its something I've done wrong, or whatever. But I did try a bunch of things before ever posting the question. Obviously I didn't try everything YET.

Thanks for response.
Hammerjammer

[heyvern]

To upload files for this forum you could simply set up a free "Dropbox" account or similar service, and link it in the post in the forum. There are instructions for cloud upload services explaining the process. There is no built in file upload feature for this forum.

Locking the bone will cause more trouble. This is probably the wrong thing to do. Bone locking doesn't really have anything to do with preventing movement of other bones in the smart bone action. I would not use bone locking with smart bones.

What you need to do is to make sure there are no keys for OTHER bones in a specific bone's smart bone actions.

The way smart bones work is that you create an action for a specific bone named, for example "left_Forearm".
You create an action named "left_Forearm" to match the bone. In that action you rotate "left_Forearm" bone ONLY at a specific key frame. At the SAME key frame you would then move points on other vector layers to fix point movement for that bone's rotation. If you rotate or translate ANY OTHER bones in the "left_Forearm" smart bone action those other bones will ALSO MOVE in the main time line when the "left_Forearm" bone is rotated to the angle keyed in its smart bone action. Bones keyed in the smart bone will be effected just like points are. Only the smart bone itself is not actually effected by the action, it controls the action.

If in the smart bone action "left_Forearm" has a key for rotation of bone say, "left_Bicep" then when you rotate "left_Forearm" in the main timeline, bone "left_Bicep" will rotate to the angle or any other key set in the "left_Forearm" smart bone action.

To check for other keys in the smart bone action, activate the action, select the bone the action is named for, then select INVERSE (under the Edit menu item). This will select ALL other bones EXCEPT the smart bone for that action. Check the time line channels and remove keys that are in the "selected bone" channels (the red channels). You do not want keys there for any other bones.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER USE THE MANIPULATE BONE TOOL IN A SMART BONE ACTION!!!!!!!

The manipulate bones tool keys ALL the bones in the chain of bones even if you only are moving one bone with it. Smart bone actions should only have keys for the specific bone it's named for UNLESS you WANT that smart bone to move OTHER bones ON PURPOSE. Any and all keys for any layer in a smart bone action will "activate" in the main time line when that smart bone is rotated.

In some advanced uses for smart bones you DO want other bones to rotate or move. However, when creating simple smart bone actions that involve chains of connected bones then this will cause problems similar to what you described.

However, I think that the problems you are having are related to the lock bone key specifically. If you don't want to use the lock bone specifically for it's intended purpose then remove those keys. The lock bone feature is not intended for what you think, it doesn't "freeze" bones to prevent accidental movement or movement from actions. It is intended to "lock" a bone in a specific spot to create an IK type movement. For example, if both foot bones are locked, then dragging/translating the hips will move the hips and bend the leg bones while the feet stay in locked in position.

[hammerjammer]

To upload files for this forum you could simply set up a free "Dropbox" account or similar service, and link it in the post in the forum. There are instructions for cloud upload services explaining the process. There is no built in file upload feature for this forum.

Locking the bone will cause more trouble. This is probably the wrong thing to do. Bone locking doesn't really have anything to do with preventing movement of other bones in the smart bone action. I would not use bone locking with smart bones.

What you need to do is to make sure there are no keys for OTHER bones in a specific bone's smart bone actions.

The way smart bones work is that you create an action for a specific bone named, for example "left_Forearm".
You create an action named "left_Forearm" to match the bone. In that action you rotate "left_Forearm" bone ONLY at a specific key frame. At the SAME key frame you would then move points on other vector layers to fix point movement for that bone's rotation. If you rotate or translate ANY OTHER bones in the "left_Forearm" smart bone action those other bones will ALSO MOVE in the main time line when the "left_Forearm" bone is rotated to the angle keyed in its smart bone action. Bones keyed in the smart bone will be effected just like points are. Only the smart bone itself is not actually effected by the action, it controls the action.

If in the smart bone action "left_Forearm" has a key for rotation of bone say, "left_Bicep" then when you rotate "left_Forearm" in the main timeline, bone "left_Bicep" will rotate to the angle or any other key set in the "left_Forearm" smart bone action.

To check for other keys in the smart bone action, activate the action, select the bone the action is named for, then select INVERSE (under the Edit menu item). This will select ALL other bones EXCEPT the smart bone for that action. Check the time line channels and remove keys that are in the "selected bone" channels (the red channels). You do not want keys there for any other bones.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER USE THE MANIPULATE BONE TOOL IN A SMART BONE ACTION!!!!!!!

The manipulate bones tool keys ALL the bones in the chain of bones even if you only are moving one bone with it. Smart bone actions should only have keys for the specific bone it's named for UNLESS you WANT that smart bone to move OTHER bones ON PURPOSE. Any and all keys for any layer in a smart bone action will "activate" in the main time line when that smart bone is rotated.

In some advanced uses for smart bones you DO want other bones to rotate or move. However, when creating simple smart bone actions that involve chains of connected bones then this will cause problems similar to what you described.

However, I think that the problems you are having are related to the lock bone key specifically. If you don't want to use the lock bone specifically for it's intended purpose then remove those keys. The lock bone feature is not intended for what you think, it doesn't "freeze" bones to prevent accidental movement or movement from actions. It is intended to "lock" a bone in a specific spot to create an IK type movement. For example, if both foot bones are locked, then dragging/translating the hips will move the hips and bend the leg bones while the feet stay in locked in position.

Hi Hayvern
WOW, that's a lot to take in. Thanks so much for the help though.
I'm going to start from scratch, paying close attention to details you gave me above.
However, just to be clear. I DID NOT use the bone lock feature in the action. That was only something I tried after the fact, thinking it would fix my problem. It did not fix anything. I did not keep it that way.

I think we might be on to something here. You see, I DID used the MANIPULATE BONE TOOL to create my actions. I thought that's how it was done.
Here's my thinking... 1) I named the action B7 which is the Bone for the forearm in question. 2) I then MANIPULATED the forearm bone(B7). Thinking that if I MANIPULATED the bone this way, then I want some POINTS in that part of the arm to react this way. Thus the ACTION. I hope this makes sense. It used to make sense to me, but now I've got a bunch of new things to learn and try. My head hurts now.

I will follow up, after I try these new things. I think I have been making the smart bones incorrectly. Or something. Gonna have to learn everything over again I think.

Thanks so much for your help.

Hammerjammer

[hammerjammer]

To upload files for this forum you could simply set up a free "Dropbox" account or similar service, and link it in the post in the forum. There are instructions for cloud upload services explaining the process. There is no built in file upload feature for this forum.

Locking the bone will cause more trouble. This is probably the wrong thing to do. Bone locking doesn't really have anything to do with preventing movement of other bones in the smart bone action. I would not use bone locking with smart bones.

What you need to do is to make sure there are no keys for OTHER bones in a specific bone's smart bone actions.

The way smart bones work is that you create an action for a specific bone named, for example "left_Forearm".
You create an action named "left_Forearm" to match the bone. In that action you rotate "left_Forearm" bone ONLY at a specific key frame. At the SAME key frame you would then move points on other vector layers to fix point movement for that bone's rotation. If you rotate or translate ANY OTHER bones in the "left_Forearm" smart bone action those other bones will ALSO MOVE in the main time line when the "left_Forearm" bone is rotated to the angle keyed in its smart bone action. Bones keyed in the smart bone will be effected just like points are. Only the smart bone itself is not actually effected by the action, it controls the action.

If in the smart bone action "left_Forearm" has a key for rotation of bone say, "left_Bicep" then when you rotate "left_Forearm" in the main timeline, bone "left_Bicep" will rotate to the angle or any other key set in the "left_Forearm" smart bone action.

To check for other keys in the smart bone action, activate the action, select the bone the action is named for, then select INVERSE (under the Edit menu item). This will select ALL other bones EXCEPT the smart bone for that action. Check the time line channels and remove keys that are in the "selected bone" channels (the red channels). You do not want keys there for any other bones.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER USE THE MANIPULATE BONE TOOL IN A SMART BONE ACTION!!!!!!!

The manipulate bones tool keys ALL the bones in the chain of bones even if you only are moving one bone with it. Smart bone actions should only have keys for the specific bone it's named for UNLESS you WANT that smart bone to move OTHER bones ON PURPOSE. Any and all keys for any layer in a smart bone action will "activate" in the main time line when that smart bone is rotated.

In some advanced uses for smart bones you DO want other bones to rotate or move. However, when creating simple smart bone actions that involve chains of connected bones then this will cause problems similar to what you described.

However, I think that the problems you are having are related to the lock bone key specifically. If you don't want to use the lock bone specifically for it's intended purpose then remove those keys. The lock bone feature is not intended for what you think, it doesn't "freeze" bones to prevent accidental movement or movement from actions. It is intended to "lock" a bone in a specific spot to create an IK type movement. For example, if both foot bones are locked, then dragging/translating the hips will move the hips and bend the leg bones while the feet stay in locked in position.

Hi Heyvern
At this point I feel like getting to be a real pain in you butt. So, Its ok if you don't respond again. I really did think this was going to turn out to be cut and dry.
Anyway...
I'm Quit conflicted at the moment though.
When I made my smartbones for this robot I'm making, I did what you see in a video straight off the Smith Micro web site(also on Youtube) that Toad T made on Smartbones.
Above you stated to "NEVER EVER EVER EVER USE THE MANIPULATE BONE TOOL IN A SMART BONE ACTION". That's what the following video from the Smith Micro web site said to do. Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm really not trying to be a smart ass here. I just want to do it correctly.

Thanks for your help.
Hammerjammer

[http://anime.smithmicro.com/tutorials/a ... bones.html

[heyvern]

You can use the manipulate bones tool to test out things on frame 0 but DO NOT use it to manipulate bones on key frames above frame 0. The video is incorrect. I didn't notice that aspect of the video previously. It sort of slipped by and explains a lot of trouble I think some people may be having because of this. Do not use the manipulate bones tool when creating Smart bone actions.

I think that video was most likely created before the smart bone feature allowed the inclusion of other bone channels. According to the video voice over he states it only allows for "point translation and curvature". Smart bones can now key other bone rotations as well as points. This was probably added in the 9.1 or 9.2 update. That is my best guess.

The manipulate bones tool... is... er... uh... not my favorite tool. I rarely use it because it doesn't give me the control I like. I have said this before in a similar topic about this same video, I do not use the Manipulate bone tool.

For "IK" it would make sense if the movement of other bones were controlled only by one bone and that tool didn't key all the bones in the chain. There are other applications I have used, mostly 3D bone based applications, that work this way. You set up an "IK" or "FK" type "rig" and moving or translating a bone creates movement in other bones based only on the position of the top bone in the chain. For example I used Animation Master for many years, and you could set up "bone constraint" rigs that would allow complex IK and FK animation by moving only one bone. The other bones in the chain were not keyed. They merely "went along for the ride" .

However the manipulate bones tool in Anime Studio, does not work this way. It keys all the bones in the chain and uses IK "math" during manipulation to show the the movement. The end result is that all the bones get keyed. They have to because there is no "programmable" IK rigging. All the bones must be keyed.

The video tutorial is wrong. I will see if I can get this message out to Smith Micro ASAP to get this fixed as this is giving very bad information and causing no end of trouble.

p.s. holy cow. I just followed the video using manipulate bone tool on the same type of arm set up and it does not work AT ALL. I try to use the manipulate bone tool on later frames in the main line and the top bone just spins around like it's on meth!

[hammerjammer]

To upload files for this forum you could simply set up a free "Dropbox" account or similar service, and link it in the post in the forum. There are instructions for cloud upload services explaining the process. There is no built in file upload feature for this forum.

Locking the bone will cause more trouble. This is probably the wrong thing to do. Bone locking doesn't really have anything to do with preventing movement of other bones in the smart bone action. I would not use bone locking with smart bones.

What you need to do is to make sure there are no keys for OTHER bones in a specific bone's smart bone actions.

The way smart bones work is that you create an action for a specific bone named, for example "left_Forearm".
You create an action named "left_Forearm" to match the bone. In that action you rotate "left_Forearm" bone ONLY at a specific key frame. At the SAME key frame you would then move points on other vector layers to fix point movement for that bone's rotation. If you rotate or translate ANY OTHER bones in the "left_Forearm" smart bone action those other bones will ALSO MOVE in the main time line when the "left_Forearm" bone is rotated to the angle keyed in its smart bone action. Bones keyed in the smart bone will be effected just like points are. Only the smart bone itself is not actually effected by the action, it controls the action.


If in the smart bone action "left_Forearm" has a key for rotation of bone say, "left_Bicep" then when you rotate "left_Forearm" in the main timeline, bone "left_Bicep" will rotate to the angle or any other key set in the "left_Forearm" smart bone action.

To check for other keys in the smart bone action, activate the action, select the bone the action is named for, then select INVERSE (under the Edit menu item). This will select ALL other bones EXCEPT the smart bone for that action. Check the time line channels and remove keys that are in the "selected bone" channels (the red channels). You do not want keys there for any other bones.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER USE THE MANIPULATE BONE TOOL IN A SMART BONE ACTION!!!!!!!

The manipulate bones tool keys ALL the bones in the chain of bones even if you only are moving one bone with it. Smart bone actions should only have keys for the specific bone it's named for UNLESS you WANT that smart bone to move OTHER bones ON PURPOSE. Any and all keys for any layer in a smart bone action will "activate" in the main time line when that smart bone is rotated.

In some advanced uses for smart bones you DO want other bones to rotate or move. However, when creating simple smart bone actions that involve chains of connected bones then this will cause problems similar to what you described.

However, I think that the problems you are having are related to the lock bone key specifically. If you don't want to use the lock bone specifically for it's intended purpose then remove those keys. The lock bone feature is not intended for what you think, it doesn't "freeze" bones to prevent accidental movement or movement from actions. It is intended to "lock" a bone in a specific spot to create an IK type movement. For example, if both foot bones are locked, then dragging/translating the hips will move the hips and bend the leg bones while the feet stay in locked in position.

Hi Heyvern
At this point I feel like getting to be a real pain in you butt. So, Its ok if you don't respond again. I really did think this was going to turn out to be cut and dry.
Anyway...
I'm Quit conflicted at the moment though.
When I made my smartbones for this robot I'm making, I did what you see in a video straight off the Smith Micro web site(also on Youtube) that Toad T made on Smartbones.
Above you stated to "NEVER EVER EVER EVER USE THE MANIPULATE BONE TOOL IN A SMART BONE ACTION". That's what the following video from the Smith Micro web site said to do. Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm really not trying to be a smart ass here. I just want to do it correctly.

Thanks for your help.
Hammerjammer

[http://anime.smithmicro.com/tutorials/a ... bones.html

OK OK OK OK.......

I have found possibly where the problem lies.
After watching the above video myself again, I was able to RECREATE the problem I'm having using the same simple rectangle & two bones. JUST LIKE IN THE VIDEO ABOVE.
The major difference I found that I'm doing that was not done in the simple rectangle Smartbone video above is.

I am using the "BIND POINTS" tool to assign points on each arm bone and have the "BONE STRENGTH" turned all the way down, as the Bone Strength no longer does anything and is just in the way. I did it this way because the WHOLE arm on my Robot is made up of many shapes with a bunch of points on the SAME LAYER. I had to do this for the arm I have. There was no other way to do it without putting the Upper and lower parts of the arm on separate layers.

LONG story short. this problem seams to only arise when there are points binded to a bone that is/will be used in a Smartbone.

Did I stumble onto some weird program glitch? Or is this already known?

The bad news is I'm still not sure how to fix the problem. I guess I'll try and separate the upper and lower arm into their own layers. Then try the smartbone stuff.

I just wanted to let you know that I was able to recreate it again and how I did it.

Thanks again Hayvern

Hammerjammer

[hammerjammer]

You can use the manipulate bones tool to test out things on frame 0 but DO NOT use it to manipulate bones on key frames above frame 0. The video is incorrect. I didn't notice that aspect of the video previously. It sort of slipped by and explains a lot of trouble I think some people may be having because of this. Do not use the manipulate bones tool when creating Smart bone actions.

I think that video was most likely created before the smart bone feature allowed the inclusion of other bone channels. According to the video voice over he states it only allows for "point translation and curvature". Smart bones can now key other bone rotations as well as points. This was probably added in the 9.1 or 9.2 update. That is my best guess.

The manipulate bones tool... is... er... uh... not my favorite tool. I rarely use it because it doesn't give me the control I like. I have said this before in a similar topic about this same video, I do not use the Manipulate bone tool.

For "IK" it would make sense if the movement of other bones were controlled only by one bone and that tool didn't key all the bones in the chain. There are other applications I have used, mostly 3D bone based applications, that work this way. You set up an "IK" or "FK" type "rig" and moving or translating a bone creates movement in other bones based only on the position of the top bone in the chain. For example I used Animation Master for many years, and you could set up "bone constraint" rigs that would allow complex IK and FK animation by moving only one bone. The other bones in the chain were not keyed. They merely "went along for the ride" .

However the manipulate bones tool in Anime Studio, does not work this way. It keys all the bones in the chain and uses IK "math" during manipulation to show the the movement. The end result is that all the bones get keyed. They have to because there is no "programmable" IK rigging. All the bones must be keyed.

The video tutorial is wrong. I will see if I can get this message out to Smith Micro ASAP to get this fixed as this is giving very bad information and causing no end of trouble.

p.s. holy cow. I just followed the video using manipulate bone tool on the same type of arm set up and it does not work AT ALL. I try to use the manipulate bone tool on later frames in the main line and the top bone just spins around like it's on meth!

Heyvern
Ive pretty much have done it this way many times. I tried it too and when your on any frame but 0(zero) the arm spins like its on meth, as you stated.
I Believe this may be only a problem since the update and not before. I guess will see.
This is starting to turn out to maybe be a big deal here. I don't know what to think, or do now.

hammerjammer

[heyvern]

Yes the video is wrong. Just don't use the manipulate bones tool inside a smart bone action. The video is incorrect but it still works if you just don't key more than 1 bone in the smart bone action. The manipulate bone tool keys more than one bone. Instead use the rotate bone tool only and only rotate one bone that is for the smart bone action, not any other bones.

The technique still works fine it just changed during one of the updates which made the tutorial video incorrect.

[hammerjammer]

Yes the video is wrong. Just don't use the manipulate bones tool inside a smart bone action. The video is incorrect but it still works if you just don't key more than 1 bone in the smart bone action. The manipulate bone tool keys more than one bone. Instead use the rotate bone tool only and only rotate one bone that is for the smart bone action, not any other bones.

The technique still works fine it just changed during one of the updates which made the tutorial video incorrect.

Wow what a mess this has all turn out to be. Never the less, I think I understand now. To tell you the truth, I dont think I have ever used the rotate bone tool. That seams to be the source of the trouble I've had both now and in the recent past.

Thanks so much for sticking with me on this one. Its been a long day and night. i have been messing with this for a better part of the day and into the night. At the very least, I think we all have maybe learned something here.
The video from above is wrong and so are a number of others i watched tonight out there on the web for the same subject.
I think this probably all started on one of the updates.

Tomorrow I will try my new found knowledge on my robot arm. Which is, to use the rotate bone tool and NOT the manipulate bone tool. I don't seen any reason why this will not work because, it worked when I tried it on the basic rectangle and two bones rig just like in the video. However I will let you know tomorrow with a follow up post.

Thanks for all your help, a true gentlemen. I get the feeling you may have enjoyed the challenge.

Thank you
Hammerjammer

[heyvern]

Thanks for all your help, a true gentlemen. I get the feeling you may have enjoyed the challenge.

I do I do! I love challenges like this. There are TWO topics about the exact same thing and started thinking possibly something weird was going on. The other topic went off in a completely different direction but I realized it started with the same problem. I love Anime Studio and know what it can do and that it works when used correctly. I don't want anyone to have issues with it that can be resolved if I can help.

The smart bone feature was freaking AWESOME when it was added in v9. Those of us "in the know" were thrilled. I was jumping up and down I was so happy.

It was new and it had great potential, but we wanted more "channels" added to it. ("More! More! Add more stuff!".)

It started out only controlling point translation and curvature, based on the rotation of the single bone named after the action. So, using manipulate bone tools would be okay because the other bone rotations weren't even used in the action. Then bone rotations were added to it and KABOOOM!! All those bone keys being added with the manipulate bones tool in that video caused problems. I didn't even notice that and I watched that video a half dozen times. It just never even clicked in my brain.

[hammerjammer]

Thanks for all your help, a true gentlemen. I get the feeling you may have enjoyed the challenge.

I do I do! I love challenges like this. There are TWO topics about the exact same thing and started thinking possibly something weird was going on. The other topic went off in a completely different direction but I realized it started with the same problem. I love Anime Studio and know what it can do and that it works when used correctly. I don't want anyone to have issues with it that can be resolved if I can help.

The smart bone feature was freaking AWESOME when it was added in v9. Those of us "in the know" were thrilled. I was jumping up and down I was so happy.

It was new and it had great potential, but we wanted more "channels" added to it. ("More! More! Add more stuff!".)

It started out only controlling point translation and curvature, based on the rotation of the single bone named after the action. So, using manipulate bone tools would be okay because the other bone rotations weren't even used in the action. Then bone rotations were added to it and KABOOOM!! All those bone keys being added with the manipulate bones tool in that video caused problems. I didn't even notice that and I watched that video a half dozen times. It just never even clicked in my brain.

Hi Vern

This post is the follow up to trying out my new found information...

IT WORKS !!!!!! Just like I expected it would, because last night I had it working on a SAMPLE rig I created to speed things up. So I really didn't see why it wouldn't work on my robot arm... So today when I got home from work, I re-created my smart bones properly and, IT DOES WORK.

In the process to understand why this wasn't working properly, I have learn a few very important things. 1) How to, and when to use the Manipulate bones properly & 2) Hot to, and when to use the Rotate bones tool properly. It really does make sense to me now.
I just got so used to using the Manipulate bones tool to always move bones when I wanted them moved that I never really noticed or gave it thought as to what the rotate bones tool did. BESIDES the fact that the video told me to do it that way when creating Smart bones. Which we all NOW know to be wrong... So, when I was starting to mess around more and more with smart bones, that's how this whole conversation started.

I actually didn't sleep very well at all last night because of this. I tossed and turned and dreamt about it. I guess I'm crazy that way.

ANYWAY

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for all you help. You have a nice day now.

Hammerjammer