Fill not working Lines dissapearing

[Mr_Putershmit]

Hey Guys,

I'm a complete Noob. First time animating, fist time using the software.

I'm importing images I've drawn on paper (easier for me that way) and using the "draw - Trace" feature in ASD9.

Whats really giving me grief is that I can't fill the face area for example. I've zoomed in on every edge and its complete all the lines are touching. The eyes will fill and eyebrows etc. but when i click into the main area of the head or hair nothing happens. What am I doin wrong here.

Also when i add or delete a point the whole black line (trace line) disappears. I have no idea how to get it back. The points are still there but its no longer a black visible line when previewed.

Please forgive my crude terminology. I understand how stupid I must sound explaining in lamens terms.

Cheers

[funksmaname]

Greetings!
Sounds like your face might be too complex for the program to solve automatically, s try to use the create shape tool to click on lines that make part of the face and keep going until you've manually defined your area. This can happen if there's no obvious flow to the points under the hood, which i suspect is what happens with the trace feature (which I've never tried )

If you break a shape by removing points it will remove the fill. Fastest way to get it back is undo! Though you might want to do the same as above for various parts.

Honestly, I can't stress enough, how much easier your life would be if you got more comfortable with the drawing tools in AS. Yo can youse your image as a guide, but rebuilding it will result in way way less points which you will appreciate later on. Especially as you're a noob, NOW is the best time to learn the fundamentals.

[Mr_Putershmit]

Hey Funsmaname.

I appreciate the response mate. I took your advice and used shapes and add lines to form the exact same shape as my drawing using it as a reference. It won't let me erase parts of shapes that overlap to create the overall shape eg nose and face which seems like a pretty basic thing to do. Which makes it a ridiculously long process. I'm amazed at how hard it is to draw a basic face in this software. I could do it in MS paint in about 20 secs.

Also I have eyes drawn using the draw shape tool (oval). When i create a new layer (copied from the original) and want them semi closed, the logical thing would be to draw a line through the eyes horizontally and fill the top half of the eyes with the colour of the face making them look semi closed. I can't simply draw a line nor can I fill even tho its a closed shape? Create shape doesn't seem to do it either. What am I missing?

This software is absolutely doing my head in. I can do what I'm trying to do in MS Paint FFS. Why is there No erase tool or delete points tool? Lines aren't drawn until..... I still have no idea why. So far flash seems way better. I'm glad I didn't buy the pro version, complete waste of money so far.

[slowtiger]

I understand your frustration, hre's some tips which may help.

1. Don't expect software to act like another software. I'm working with graphic software for 20 yrs now, and the best lesson is: it's not important to do it the same way, it's only important to have an equally good result.

That said: sometimes it's just easier to compose a face of separate shapes. And why not? Nobody will spot the difference. In CGI it's the same: you create lots of separate parts wich only appear to be one object. You willalso benefit from more separate shapes when you really begin to animate.

2. To delet points just select them with the select (G) or transform (T) tool, then hit backspace.

3. Eyelids are best done as a separate shape on top of the eyeball. When you begin to animate, you'll find it much easier to manipulate a seperate lid, instead of deforming the eye with every blink.

[funksmaname]

Also, from your description, you are not drawing a shape on the eyelid layer, just a line that only visually intersects the eyeball. If you hide the face layer what are you left with? A line. How can that be filled? Ms paint would fill it because it only supports one layer. Photoshop on the other hand would not (in fact it would just fill the entire canvas).

When I say learn how the tools work I mean LEARN. Do the tutorials on shape construction, watch tutorial videos. Don't just expect it to work like ms paint or assume you already know how it works. There are reasons for the madness if you give it a chance. I realise this may come across harsh, but if what you want is to draw like ms paint then do so in ms paint and just import your frames to make em jiggle. Don't think of AS as a drawing program, think of it more as a construction program. In all this time, I mostly use a mouse, though I wouldn't DREAM of actually drawing with an mouse.

If you're not open to change, and want things the way you expect them, then perhaps flash IS a better solution for now.

[Mr_Putershmit]

Also, from your description, you are not drawing a shape on the eyelid layer, just a line that only visually intersects the eyeball. If you hide the face layer what are you left with? A line. How can that be filled? Ms paint would fill it because it only supports one layer. Photoshop on the other hand would not (in fact it would just fill the entire canvas).

I'm left with an eye with a line in the middle. When a line intersects a shape from one side to the other it makes two separate shapes. I figured the software would interpret it the same way and be able to fill each shape with a separate colour. I have to tell it to recognise that shape using the create shape tool. Which seems to work most of the time.

No need for the condescending response either mate the view must be nice from up there. I'm an audio engineer and have to deal with a billion stupid questions daily. My theory is there is no such thing as a stupid question how else would any of us learn anything. Isn't that what these forums are for? To share knowledge and help. For the record I don't rate MS paint I was pointing out that software as basic as that can do what I'm trying to do yet AS cannot. This software is far superior I know that and I've watched dozens of the tutorial videos on the site and none of them answered my questions so I posted here. just frustrated thats all.

@slowtiger cheers for the tips. I'm gettin there slowly. Some grey hairs sprouting but thats to be expected with the new software learning curve.

[funksmaname]

I totally understand your frustration too, I didn't meen to be condescending, it was more a response to your tone comparing our beloved AS to MS Paint but there's quite a specific workflow to 'drawing' with AS, which in my experience doesn't really include much 'drawing' as such, hense describing it more for 'construction' of characters. There are weak points and strong points so its really more about knowing what tool to use for what, if you're after freedom of drawing flash, toonboom or tv paint may well be a better solution, but for it's strong points AS knocks those guys out of the park... a LOT of how good or bad any software is is to do with what you are trying to achieve and where your core skills lie - as you can imagine being an audio engineer it's like someone saying 'whats this LOGIC/CUBASE/PRO TOOLS? I can do all this stuff way easier in FRUITY LOOPS or REASON' - but of course you have the experience to know what you CAN'T do with those, and where their place is in your tool belt.

Sorry if we got off on the wrong foot!

[slowtiger]

The problem is that we humans immediately "see" things in context where any software first must be "told" how to interpret stuff.

MSPaint is a bitmap program, which means the software only understands pixels on a flat layer: all pixels are the same, and only differentiated by colour and position.

AS is a vector program. Each construction line, closed or not, is a separate object made of several points. We humans see lines and shapes together and immediately understand "this is an eye with a lid". But the software only sees separate objects on top of each other. It must be told which objects belong together, which points they share, and which area shall be a shape to be filled with colour.

I'm working with graphics software for 20 yrs now, so it's a bit hard for me to understand how a beginner in this field must feel. But I bet you have a hard time yourself if you try to explain to somebody the difference between a software synth, an external synth, a MIDI track and an audio track - I have, when I try to to tell my father on the phone! (He uses Logic and calls me with the eternal question "but why do I not hear what I played?")

[Mr_Putershmit]

All good fellas. Absolutely no love lost here. I'll get the hang of it. And I do appreciate your advice.

hahah I know the logic and Protools questions far too well I'm afraid. And as for MIDI man don't even get me started. But hey we were all beginners at one point, so If I can fast track someones learning curve then I'll do what I can.

There is so much to dig about this software. A completely different approach to doing things than I anticipated. But as frustrating as it can be these sorts of things are always worth it in the long run.

Can either of you tell me how to re size or re scale multiple layers at once? For example all the layers I've used to make a face, head, eyes, mouth etc I can't seem to group them together. My character is far to big for the scene.

Cheers

[funksmaname]

If all you want to do is reframe the scene use he camera controls (at frame 0 this won't result in any animation)
Otherwise, you should be able to pull all the layers you want to resize into a single parent group or bone layer, and resizing that will scale its children (though if you pull them out after they will go back to original size).

I think simply selecting multiple layers for manipulation should affect them all, but I don't think it does and I'll suggest it as an enhancement for a future update!