where´z the pros?

zlimbot · Post by **zlimbot** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:43 pm

where´z the pros?

where are all the pros that use moho?!

i have been doing some serius lurking for awhile here, being a newbie to moho. i cheq the forums here to look for tips from pros...but there are very few. (i don´t need tips on bounzing balles or guys moving back and forthi want to see examples of how pros use moho.) most peopl here are either 13 yer olds or people that are below amateur - beginers like me.don´t pros,profesionals, use moho? there are a couple here, but most people here are beginer beginers. like me.

check out the heavy chatz regarding 3d in moho - http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtop ... sc&start=0 i went looking through the share your work list and checked it to the 3d in moho forum people. most of the guys in that forum have never even posted an animation tothe forums here. how can u all be wanting moho to do more when u don´t even use it ass it is???
moho posts a new update to moho 5.2 - embedded scriptz,photoshop files,line animation. where´s all the samples of work usng these
new features by all u longtime moho forum memberz? i guess the real question is from me not just do proz use moho, but does anybody use moho more than just for simple stuff? seemz like most of the usual posters at these moho forums have never done much with moho. from what i have seen most peopel are not doing more than the simple basics...beginer stuff.
why does moho need all the new features if nobody uses them?

:?::?: andthen my next question is,//////
is moho just a software just for beginners only? i see lots of people here say moho is just for hobbyists. is it? is it just a toy?

:?::?:something above walt disney magic artist studio or simpsons cartoon studio animaton program? or is moho aiming for pros? most chat forums for art and software programs i have vistied have a higher % of pros and semi-pros than amatures. moho is the other way around.
my question again//////

Where are all the pros that use moho?!

regards, zlimbot. back to lurking.
p.s. pros if you are out there, pleeeeeeeez start posting!!!!!

---------
keep cool and may all our animation dreamz come true.

bupaje · Post by **bupaje** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:10 pm

Welcome to the forum. You are not the first to ask that question. My suggestion is to look at the Gallery examples, follow the profile links from members who have posted examples of thier work in the gallery or forum (or at least sound like they know what they are talking about) and you'll see some nice work here and on their web sites that uses Moho alone or with other tools like Flash.

I dabble with some game design software, Moho and a few other things that can be used by professionals but I myself am a hobbyist at best. Invariably the forums are full of beginners like me with the occasional 'pro' dropping in to answer a question or provide a resource or example but most often these guys are actually working and not chatting.

Hope to see some of your own efforts when you post them. All the best.

Post by **Lost Marble** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:58 pm

I don't know why a lot of them are not on the forum - maybe they're too busy working? There are definitely pros using Moho, unfortunately some of their work can't be shown in the gallery for various licensing reasons, or that it isn't ready for public display yet (pilot TV shows, etc.).

And some of the pros that do post here on the forums are quieter than many of the hobbyists. They come to make a few directed feature requests, rather than show their work.

No, Moho is not used to produce something like The Incredibles, but then again, I bet no Pixar animators posted pre-production drawings Mr. Incredible on a "Share Your Work" forum either, asking for opinions.

Ritalin · Post by **Ritalin** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:02 pm

Lost Marble wrote: No, Moho is not used to produce something like The Incredibles, but then again, I bet no Pixar animators posted pre-production drawings Mr. Incredible on a "Share Your Work" forum either, asking for opinions.

haha, that's awesome

zlimbot · Post by **zlimbot** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:59 pm

yo, lostmarble, sounds good...

:D:D:D all the pros can´t show their work because they are using moho for licensed copyrighted tradmarkedprojects---something we can nevr proof....almost all artistes have their own websites nd do lotz of private work....and there are none that want to show their private moho work here or link to their website???????????????????? (well a few do i guess)
lm//// instead of making clever top-secret ("but then again, I bet no Pixar animators posted pre-production drawings Mr. Incredible on a "Share Your Work" forum either, asking for opinions.") pixar work excuses i thought u would have put a call out to all pros to post here .
lm-------why do the pros show their work at sites like--------
http://cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=254635 (scroll down and that artist is showing that crazy pixar and incrdibles stuff)
or
http://cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=247336 (showing his work on lord of the rings...)
and im sure these guyz & galz work at regualr jobs (like animation studios) but they post their private work:
http://cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=132
or
http://www.sketchbooksessions.com/thedr ... hp?t=33065 /lots more at that website -look around////
and am i undertandin you rite - you're saying pros do come here to the forums but don´t post their work becausee they don´t need our opinion??? is that the only reason people post their work here is to get opinions from beginers like me....i don´t think so////// and once its done, they don´t need any opinion....and why do pros post their work at other sites???
lm: why don´t u ask the pros that you know are using moho to post some of their private moho work so we can all be inspired???? it can only help your biz and crediblty of moho. pros why aren´t you posting your moho work (private or whatever) or links to your moho animations workhere???? i want to see what pros can do with moho!!!!!!!!

Squeakydave · Post by **Squeakydave** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:26 pm

As a 'Pro' who uses Moho quite a bit I'd just like to point out that I have to sign non-disclosure agreements so I can't legally show stuff while I'm working on it. It is also pretty much up to the client whether or not I can show it when it is finished. Often I don't even get a copy of the final piece!

I have got some stuff that I did with Moho for Nickelodeon jr earlier in the year but am too busy at the moment with other stuff to sort it out and get it on my site. Sorry, I will share it when I can though. As to Private work. Boy do I wish I had the time and money to be able to do some! (Saying that I did actually do a 10sec club piece with Moho that can be found in the animation section of my site )

By the way don't get hung up on what software people use. Use whatever it takes to get the job done and remember - Back in the last century we used pencil and paper!

Post by **Lost Marble** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:41 pm

zlimbot wrote:lm-------why do the pros show their work at sites like--------...

The Incredibles and Lord of the Rings are very glamorous projects, and there are tons of people out there that get really excited hearing about the work people do on these projects. A lot of the pro work done with Moho is for things like TV commercials, network ID spots, etc. These folks are working hard to pay the bills, often on a contract basis, and may not have the luxury to chat with their "fans" like a salaried Pixar animator might in between films.

Here a professional piece done partly with Moho - they do crop up from time to time in the forums, as well as the gallery section of the website:

http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=855

zlimbot · Post by **zlimbot** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:22 am

Squeakydave wrote: Back in the last century we used pencil and paper!

what´s pencil and paper????????

i visited your site - cool stuff!

when you say you use moho does that mean you make the whole thing in moho? put it together, draw it, do names and titles or what part is mohoed????????? i mean i look at the moho samples and i have a hard time tellin what has been mohoed on animations i see and what not...understnad? u don´t have to reply if you are too busy. (note to lm get rid of the ragged, unsweet,ronald reagan animationtutorial/////puh-leeez!!!! u probably loose 20sales a week on that masterpiece of unworthy lame crapola. nothin against rr- the animation is just so bad i could do it. and bill clinton and arnold animation things are like....real.....old-they gotta go:D )
okay i got one pro reminded us of stuff (u were already in my list ofcouple of regular pros here,tho )....we need more!!!! are you pros all too busy and don´t have the luxury to chat with us "fans"??????? i don´t want to chat, i want to see your work!!!! (((((shooot...thendoes that mean then people that post here are losers (whoops...students such as me) because they have too much time (unemployed-school starts in a couple of months) because we are not salaried animators.... ))))))

man, i am liking thelurker thing i was doing better and better.

bupaje · Post by **bupaje** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:31 am

I had talked to this guy some time back as he had a sample. He said he did use Moho on his projects but I honestly don't know if all or some and what other tools as it was several months ago.

http://www.makoverstudio.com/

He had posted "The Good Spirit Song" here at one point.

cribble · Post by **cribble** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:44 pm

As said before, some of these guys are busy mofo's and need time. If you're really desperate to speak to a pro, email around. You don't what studios might be using this software, you could even discover more software. It seems like you have a lot of time on your hands so shoot some mail in their direction.

00moa00 · Post by **00moa00** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:51 pm

I think the "pros"(persons who make money with animations made with moho) are here but on the forum they have a "pseudo" and it's not often possible to make link between pseudo and the real name or company name.
One of my work is on the moho gallery (tv commercial section). i think its the same for the others guys (or girls) who have exposed they works on the gallery....

i've just done my coming out !

MarkBorok · Post by **MarkBorok** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:52 pm

I've used Moho professionally, but I wouldn't call those efforts spectacular animation (although they did have a few decent moments). Some of us are better designers than we are animators, especially when working under a deadline.

Lost Marble should locate some of the more talented independent animators working today, especially those doing cut-out style animation, and give them free copies of Moho if they will agree to use the program on their next short film (and let Lost Marble post the results). It's great that hobbyists and beginners are enjoying the program, but it's not good PR for Lost Marble to have so much amateur work representing it. Hash has the same problem with Animation:Master, although they have some really spiffy stuff too. You end up with a reputation as a hobbyist's program.

Toontoonz · Post by **Toontoonz** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:03 pm

I agree with MarkBorok.
LM may be able to write nifty code for Moho, but marketing and PR is not its strong suit.
I remember when the 3D program Maxon Cinema 4D came out - it almost had started to get the reputation as the next Hash Animation:Master - the tool for hobby and beginner 3D artists - and then the guys that worked there decided to aim for the stars - only professional work on their website. (They got their software in the hands of pros to use as MarkBorok says.)
Boom! Overnight it seems Cinema 4D got a lot of credibility.
Check out their user gallery:
http://www.maxoncomputer.com/gallery/en/index.asp
(Could you imagine them posting beginner and student art there??? No way!)

I would go even one step further than MarkBorok´s suggestion (his suggestion is good) regarding LM and it´s image - one which is going to cause a lot of people here to scream - I would recommend getting rid of the Lost Marble Forum as it presently is.
All that is here at the forum for the most part are hobbyists, students and beginners. Nothing against those people - all are very enthusiastic supporters of Moho, but that is all that is here - hobbyists, students and beginners.
This is not good PR for Moho. Unless that is all that Moho strives to be - an animation program just for hobbyists, students and beginners.

One of the first things one does when they check out Moho is go to the forums and look at the "Share My Work" forum. There are just a few samples of pro work buried there - that says very few pros are really using it - contrary to what LM wants everyone to believe.
98% of the "Share Your Work" forum is basic, simple, beginner animations. To the first time visitor (and potential buyer of Moho) the reaction is: "Is that all one can do with Moho???".
(And what other art or animation program do you see that posts samples of beginner´s art and animation? None that I know of. Those software companies want to highlight the best - show what fantastic things can be done with their software, not highlight the beginner stuff.)

Instead, if I was LM, I would get rid of the user input forum (or totally revamp it for just bugs, feature requests and LM announcements), solicit (as MarkBorok suggests) semi and professional artists, animators and designers to make some nifty animations, perhaps write some tutorials and post them to the website.
Show the best, the cleverest, the coolest ways to use Moho. (Yes, I know LM has a gallery - but for the most part it is very weak.)
LM needs to make people go "Wow! You can do that with Moho!?!".
Showing beginner work is not the way to do it.

jahnocli · Post by **jahnocli** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:09 pm

Harsh but fair...

The400th · Post by **The400th** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:39 pm

Lost Marble should locate some of the more talented independent animators working today, especially those doing cut-out style animation, and give them free copies of Moho if they will agree to use the program on their next short film

There are two problems with that approach. First, at $99 Moho is effectively "free" anyway. What costs a professional more is the time taken to learn and get efficient with a new program.

Secondly, the high-end software suppliers already give their software to "star" animators, to try to encourage them to switch. Some also give free on-site training and support. So what is the animator going to choose? The free software worth $99, or the free software worth $2000+?

Oh, and keep the forum, it creates rabid fans who will spread the word for free.

where´z the pros?

where´z the pros?

Moho needs to get into more pro hands.