Animate Bone Layer Order?

[GregSmith]

I've watched videos showing how this is now possible in Anime Studio, but I cannot make it work with the demo version of Anime Studio Pro. And there is nothing in the manual describing how to do this seemingly simple process.

Can someone please post a short "step-by-step" tutorial on how to change the bone layer order over time? The goal of this, for me, is to be able to move a limb of a character which appears at the top of the layer order, (the limb is in front), and, as the character turns, the limb moves behind the torso bone layer.

Thank you,

Greg Smith

[heyvern]

It's very easy. Just move the layer up or down on any key frame. Make sure the "layer order" channel is visible for the bone layer in the time line by clicking on the "Settings" button in the time line and checking the box for layer order.

Things to watch out for:

The "tricky" or "annoying" thing is that the keys for layer order are only seen on the BONE or GROUP layer. Layer order keys are not visible on the layers being changed. This is because ALL layers are keyed for layer order. I repeat ALL LAYERS ARE KEYED WHEN ANIMATING LAYER ORDER!

This is important and can be slightly confusing:

For example. Imagine a set up with layers 1-5 with layer 1 at the bottom and layer 5 at the top.

let's say you move layer 1 above layer layer 2 on frame 50. Later on you go back to frame 25 and move layer 3 above layer 4. On frame 50 layer 3 is still below layer 4. It is in the same place it was when you keyed layer 1 earlier. When the animation plays layer 3 will jump down on frame 50... even though you didn't actually move it down on frame 50. You only moved layer 1. It has a key because ALL layers are keyed when any layer's order is changed.

It's ironic because it is that behavior some us would like when animating bones .

Since you can't access the layer order "keys" of individual layers there is no way to selectively fix problems like this. You would have to go to each layer order key and reorder them to what you want.

The best way to avoid problems is to do layer ordering keys as the last step in the animation and do it linearly in order starting at the beginning. Otherwise you find yourself going back to key frames and having to reorder them.

-vern

[mkelley]

And, let me add, it's also slightly buggy.

I've verified this -- if you try and change a layer order when you already have a key for a layer order there is no predicting what will happen -- layers can jump around seemingly at random. You can try deleting the layer order keys and starting again, but I find it easier to just put the layers back where they belong.

It's not a consistent bug, but since I use layer ordering a lot I've noticed it about half of the time. There may even be a rhyme and reason to it, but I've yet to be able to discover it (I got excited when I read Vern's explanation because I thought it might have something to do with it -- that is, ordering something that affects another order might screw things up, but I've seen this happen even when the layers are far far apart and nothing to do with each other. Say you move layer 1 to below layer 2 -- suddenly layer 10 moves above layer 7. Really, really weird).

The other thing Vern may not have made real clear is you can only order layers within a group or bone layer -- AND you can only add layers to such a group now at frame 0. Maybe this is obvious, but it wasn't at first to me.

[GregSmith]

Thanks Vern and Mike:

I see what you mean. So, with all bugs and such, this would be the procedure:

1. On frame 0, set up all layers as children of bone (or group) layers.

2. Animate everything as though layer order did not matter, (don't change the order of any layers)

3. When you are satisfied with the performance, (except some limbs appear in front when they should be in back), open the "Settings" dialog from the Timeline.

4. Click to display "Layer Order" keys.

5. Navigate to the frame where a limb that is in front should really be in back and move that limb's bone layer down beneath the "torso" bone layer - a layer order keyframe is set.

6. Advance through the animation to each point in time where a limb needs to change from front to back or from back to front and move the bone layer of that limb to its appropriate place, either above or below other bone layers.

7. Play back your animation and see everything in the order that it should be - no funny business is visible.

Can you add anything to these 7 steps to get perfect layer order animation?

I haven't tried it yet because I have been remiss in purchasing Anime Studio Pro. You see, I've been a long time owner of Moho and I even downloaded the free upgrade to Anime Studio for the Mac back when that was possible. But, now I use a PC, and, when I called Smith Micro about getting my free upgrade, since I am the owner of the last available version of Moho, (5.3 or something), they told me I had to pay the full $199 price - even though I own the Mac version of Anime Studio Pro.

This is somewhat upsetting and I really don't want to pay another $199 for software who's only real improvement, for me, is animated bone layers that may or may not work.

What do you say?

Greg Smith

[mkelley]

Greg,

The animated layers will work -- it's just a little odd at times and at times you need to remove certain layers. But, all in all, it's hugely faster than the alternative (which is to have duplicates and change visibility) as well as making a lot more sense.

I hear you about spending the money... except that at $200 AS is about the greatest ROI on any software I can imagine. I use animated layer order a LOT and would pay $200 just for that feature. And as others have said here, AS runs a lot faster on a PC so you'll reap that benefit as well.

And... perhaps you'll even get a break on version 6.0. I don't know what your timetable is, but depending on how long you can wait you might want to drag out buying another copy until you really want it, so that you can either get 6.0 or get a free upgrade.

Personally, when 6.0 comes out (and assuming it's a reasonable cost) I'll buy one or two new copies anyway, as well as upgrading, as I want some of my colleagues to use it as well and figure we need to support Mike as much as possible.

[synthsin75]

Hey Mike, if you happen to have a file you could share that displays that layer ordering bug, I'd like to investigate it. If not, that's okay, or PM me if you don't want to make it public. I don't know if you'd even have anything you can share.

[mkelley]

Wes,

Remind me again after December 10th -- that's my deadline and in the meantime I don't want to try and do anything to distract myself.

I'm sure then I can find a file or two that displays this (although if I do come across another in the meantime I'll shoot it off to you -- right now the moving hand, having written, moves on...)

[JubbaTheHott]

i know that this thread is pretty old, but i'd like to ask whether this is still possible in Anime Studio Pro version 8?

thanks.

[funksmaname]

yes.

[JubbaTheHott]

haha ok thanks - i'm having a hard time seeing how to do this, though.
there doesn't seem to be a "settings" dialogue in the timeline, which might mean i'm looking in the wrong place for it.

as a basic test, i made two bone layers and swapped their layer order top/bottom on a few different frames but i don't see any effect.

what is it that i'm doing incorrectly? many thanks!

[funksmaname]

double click a bone or group layer, and in the tab 'depth sort' enable it... when you first create a change on any frame other than 0 a new lane for layer order will appear in the timeline.

[JubbaTheHott]

double click a bone or group layer, and in the tab 'depth sort' enable it... when you first create a change on any frame other than 0 a new lane for layer order will appear in the timeline.

thanks, i found the setting and turned on "enable animated layer order" for both bone layers. however, making layer order changes on various frames does not work - meaning, it doesn't set any keys and the changes i make anywhere in the timeline are permanent and are reflected at frame 0

i also enabled the box in my preferences "consolidate timeline channels" with the hopes of seeing keys, but there's nothing

is there another step that I'm missing?
thanks again.

[jahnocli]

Try putting all the layers you want to flip inside a group folder.

[JubbaTheHott]

Try putting all the layers you want to flip inside a group folder.

THAT'S IT!! My "simple" test set-up didn't have the bones grouped together.
Thanks! Cheers folks, thanks for the help.