Worthless trivia or information of use to someone....????

[Toontoonz]

Nichod

Be happy too. But please be patient. Right now I'm just babbling until I can access my own computer.

I look forward to it, because all I have seen you do as far as animation with Moho is a simple colored ball bouncing up and down.
And I think I saw a black outline sketch or an elephant/kangaroo you did in Moho.
Please correct me if I missed something. I am supposed to take your "Nichod knows better" statements (and vast experience drawing and animating with Moho) as credible based on that body of work in Moho???

Nichod

And I feel you are just complaining. If you'd like to be constructive I suggest that you add an additional comments and suggestions in relation to the brush system to this: Thread.
So we can compile all the information into one concise thread without all the experiments etc.

Funny isn´t it....I make the same claim (but document it with examples)
http://www.lostmarble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1887
and it is "complaining", you talk generalites about the weaknesses in the brushes and how you wish they could be like the vector program Expression and it is "constructive criticism".

And am I complaining, yes. So what? All my "complaints" are documented with facts and graphics...and not prove-nothing statements such as: "...using methods that are as simple, and would give you a greater degree of control. "

[Toontoonz]

For some pro work check out the gallery, there's some pro level stuff there, for commercials for instance.

Glad you brought that up.
A couple of other artists and I were playing around with Moho the other night.One of the guys was complaining about this and that (I´m not the only one).

And I said to him, "Hey, Moho costs only $99".

His reply (summed up, not verbatim):
Remember when you first found out about Moho and you went to the Moho gallery ("Take a look at some of the work done by Moho users in the Moho Gallery."), and you thought, "WOW! Cool! Look what people are making in Moho!"
And then you realize after working in Moho for a while, that probably only parts of the stuff shown were made in Moho -(the illustrations were done in Program X or Photoshop and imported into Moho and given the bone treatment), the titles were done in a different program because the text function in Moho doesn´t work so well and that you need a video editing program such as Premier, After Effects to edit the single scenes one does in Moho, sound?, etc. So to get one of those animations shown in the Moho gallery one has to spend quite a bit of money - not $99.

"But Moho´s still only $99.", I said.

----------------------

I am thinking that maybe I am asking too much from Moho.
It would be similar to me being frustrated using Adobe Elements when I should put up the cash and buy Adobe Photoshop.

I am not aware of all the programs available out there - is there another program that can do the things that attracted me to Moho?
- Boning of Drawings (vector drawing function or can import vector drawings)
- Timeline animation
- 3D environment
- Lipsync
Thanks!

By the way, I too am surprised that not more pros are visiting or commenting in these forums. Most other creative forums get the pros.

[nobudget]

A personal thing about Photoshop and other Adobe products, right now I wouldn't want them if they were freeware. And PS is also not a stand-alone program, you need other apps to do a lot of graphical tasks. And Adobe Premiere implements crap keying and compositing just to sell After Effects. In fact, any program needs other programs to give their best. Moho is actually more versatile than many other programs I know. The price tag is never an excuse for poor performance. Moho is good for $99,- and a lot more (don't tell LM) but that's because it fits my needs. That's what trial software is for, to see if it fits your needs. I was used to drawing in Flash, using Moho has changed the way I design characters and improved it. I don't like the automatic rounding off corners but I can still work with it.

You know why there are no pros here? Honestly? I think pros are probably ashamed to admit they use this cheap "toy" program and cheat by using bones instead of drawing every frame. Do you know the Pig video from the gallery? I thought it was Flash when I first saw that, that was professional A-grade stuff. I thought "wow they can do amazing stuff with Flash". It's still impressive but now I see how "easy" it is to do in Moho.

The program is not perfect, but it has changed the way I work with animation. I work in all fields of visuals, still, video, animation, websites etc. and for me it has proven as tool I use in many different ways (it's worth it for warping/morphing/video compositing alone). I can see traditional animators disliking it and vector artists also, well, there's probably other software for that. But try to beat the forum activity!

Toontoonz: Is you irritation with Moho what it IS right now or what you WANT it to be in your mind? That's a serious question, no sarcasm or cynicism intended.

Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com

[Toontoonz]

Toontoonz: Is you irritation with Moho what it IS right now or what you WANT it to be in your mind? That's a serious question, no sarcasm or cynicism intended.

What it is right now. That´s what I paid for.
Moho says it can import .ai files (one of the reasons I was attracted to it).
Moho can´t do it very well. One has to spend a lot of time correcting the files (if it is even possible). The colors are off, the shapes are off.
Flash says it can import .ai files. Other vector programs say they can import .ai files. They can. The file imported looks just like the file it came from - colors correct, shapes correct. When a program claims it can do something then it should be able to do it.

So then I got over the poor .ai import thing and decided to learn to draw using Moho´s vector drawing tools.
I jumped right into it ready to conquer it - then semi-shock/disappointment. Other than the solild black line, there are no vector brushes with Moho - they are just image files that are repeated and twisted to form to new graphic images. (For all I know the solid black line is just an image file, too - a black square - maybe that´s why all Moho lines end with a square?
Whatever - That is not vector drawing.
Real disappointing. One cannot use Moho to draw any vector graphics other than simple lines and shapes and one cannot import vector graphics (without lots of work).

And using the drawing tools in Moho are very awkward.
Heck, I could go on, but there are too many sensitive people here that do not want to hear anything negative about Moho.

You and everyone else loves them - fine.
But from what I have seen here very few people even use the Moho drawing tools. Other than for real simple, basic characters and shapes. (No one yet has shown me an animation (other than some quicky drawing moving back and forth for 2 seconds) made with any Moho image brushes.)
I think if people would use Moho more and draw more they would move to my position on the Moho drawing tools. (There really is not many "share your work" things put up in that forum.)
----------------

And regarding your comment on the pros ashamed to say they use Moho, I doubt it. I don´t think they use Moho. (One that I know looked at Moho´s 3D environment (I was showing him what I was doing) and said, why use that? - you can do it all in Adobe After Effects and have much better control.)
If the pros did use Moho you would be sure that Moho would have put their stuff up in the gallery.

[Nichod]

I'm not sensitive to defending moho I just think you should post feature suggestions to the right forum. And once you realize a limitation quit endlessly complaining. But I'll leave you to your endless frustration with the program that you bought. Don't understand why you didn't test it more thoroughly, since its essentially a free endless demo. But I suppose it could have been an impulse buy. I actually haven't updated my version of Moho from version ? something yet because I want to make sure that this update is worth the spending of finances. That said I'll leave you alone to your complaining.

Got a baby on the way so have to be thrifty! 19 days until the due date!

Brian

[nobudget]

"there are too many sensitive people here that do not want to hear anything negative about Moho"

If you can name one that would be enough. Don't project your frustration on others please. Trial versions exist for a reason. Most people here tried it and apparently liked it enough to keep using it. All the usual posters here have commented on weak parts of the program in a constructive way and no one is defending it blindly. Even LM is not above admitting flaws in the program. You may have made a mistake purchasing this program. Don't blame the author, don't blame the community that tries to be helpful. I don't seen any issue you have that you couldn't notice with a couple of hours of testing at most. Or one question or glance in the forum.

You bought something you regret. Everyone's done it, you bitch and whine for a while and get over it. Well, you should know where you are at this moment

Reindert.
www.nobudgetvideo.com

[Rai López]

Well, Nichod... How can I say you this... Toontoonz never will be alone in his complainings while I am here for support him when he have reason, I always have thought, like Toontoonz, that there is so much people here that say the wonderfull, and perfect that Moho is (in many cases it's true), and when appears somebody with the constructive criticism (I believe that if we bother writing things like this, is because we hope improve the product with this, if not, I, for example, would prefer be playing Super Mario ) well, you straight away think that we are a SAD persons... Well, I've said lots of times that I love Moho, but when I go to certain feature, and I like it, and finally I can't use it, because it doesn't works... I made me mad (sad), yes... Is this my fault, I think not, I am so... Is this somebody fault, neither, that in not the question... the question is... is... Uf... I think my english have finish just here... (lo siento)

[Toontoonz]

Reindert says:

If you can name one that would be enough. Don't project your frustration on others please.

If you don´t like what I write about, don´t read it, don´t comment back.
There is nothing I have said that is incorrect. No one has shown me that what I have written about Moho is wrong.
All you do is complain about the messenger; not the message, not the facts.

You say: "All the usual posters here have commented on weak parts of the program in a constructive way and no one is defending it blindly."
Reply: Oh, good, so we should all stop talking about the weak parts of Moho because Reindert and the "usual posters" ALREADY pointed them out to us.

------------------
Could you please post some of your animations where you drew something in Moho?
I looked through the Moho "share your work" forum and all I could see was Your Claymotion and Monster test ("I grabbed a moody background, cut-out some photos...")and Webshow intro animation videos posted there that do not even use Moho´s drawing tools!

So it puzzles me a bit, how can you comment on my comments about Moho´s drawing tools, when it appears you don´t even use Moho´s drawing tools (or maybe just some simple black lines and a fill color that I perhaps missed?), but instead choose to use images brought into Moho via another program???

Oh - and please check the "share your work" forum - I think you will find several examples of my test and experimental animation work created in Moho. (But not necessarily drawn in Moho.)

[Nichod]

I am not aware of all the programs available out there - is there another program that can do the things that attracted me to Moho?
- Boning of Drawings (vector drawing function or can import vector drawings)
- Timeline animation
- 3D environment
- Lipsync
Thanks!

Animo can. http://www.cambridgeanimation.com
It also has a traditional background as well, and its customers include Warner Bros., DreamWorks SKG, etc.

Though things get quite complicated quickly with a package such as Animo. I find it very akward to work in. Which is likely due to its level of complexity and detailed toolset.

Screengrab http://www.cambridgeanimation.com/image ... rector.jpg

Its also a helluva lot more expensive then Moho. But perhaps it would be better for your needs.

Brian