Will there be more updates to Moho?
Moderators: Víctor Paredes, Belgarath, slowtiger
I can only speak from personal experience, and I have heard from LM twice in the last couple of months on technical issues not directly related to moho.zlimbot wrote: does LM answer anybody´s emails???
Also, it has been my observation that before, LM had gotten real quiet on the boards before a major release. However, this time it is different, given that LM has moved and has a new baby. On the bright side, I am very happy to see that the rest of the moho community has picked up the slack and has helped out in the forums to answer the questions of the users.
In terms of the "it's only $99, you get what you pay for debate" I do have something to add. Part of the reason that I personally bought moho was the updates from LM as well as the forum here. So I can see why, even though there is no guarantee of future support, there has been a past history of such support. Moho is more than just the download. Having said that, LM has come forward and said that he was hiring additional help to add features and do support, so I feel comfortable with the direction, even with the lack of communication.
Again, I'm only speaking from my point of view.
jorgy
I'm here, it's just that I didn't feel like there was any point in speculating in this thread, LM seems long gone and lost and I got a feeling that Moho is slipping away from us.zlimbot wrote:where have all the long term posters at LM forum gone?
rasheed, ramon,7feet,myles,bupaje,rylleman...everybody has disappeared!!!??!:!:
The fact that LM is a one-man-company and he has a lot of other things going on leaving no time for Moho aren't anything that should concern us users, we shouldn't even notice it. One of the most important rules I got as a freelance animator is that you should never let your private life interfere with your work. My customers don't care if I got a sore throat or a baby on the way, that's my problem, not theirs, they paid me money to deliver professional material on time and if I can't do that they never going to hire me again.
If LM can't keep Moho running I thing it would be a good idea for him to hire someone to help him.
When there are several severe bugs in the software and we don't even know if LM is aware of them since he's not responding in the bug report-threads, or if they are going to be fixed, it's hard to motivate the use of the software for future projects. I love Moho and want to keep on using it but if it's stuck on this level I'm not sure anymore.
More or less, the same for my part... Greetings!rylleman wrote:When there are several severe bugs in the software and we don't even know if LM is aware of them since he's not responding in the bug report-threads, or if they are going to be fixed, it's hard to motivate the use of the software for future projects. I love Moho and want to keep on using it but if it's stuck on this level I'm not sure anymore.
Last edited by Rai López on Sun May 21, 2006 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't know how often LM answered to your e-mails before, and what is the usual time between two upcoming versions. When I started to work with Moho in the middle of 04/2006, I wrote him two e-mails and he answered me very quickly. But he not answered the third one. I know that after a level of development, things becomes very difficult to change. If you correct a bug, two others appears. And if he has a newborn baby (if it's true), he has no time and because of feeling of safeness, I don't think he wants to do such business movements you are supposing.
But of course, it is his problem and you want to go forward. Me too.
But of course, it is his problem and you want to go forward. Me too.
- - - Fazek
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jackthegiantkiller
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:58 pm
Getting nervous myself...
The silence from LM is somewhat deafening, but I'm secretly hoping he's in the middle of a major Moho upgrade or a major staff upgrade (perhaps even a major merger!) This program is fantastic, and seems to have outgrown its humble origins. I can empathize...like my own small business, I had to decide whether to allow it grow (and deal with the inevitable growing pains) or to simply maintain what I had. I decided to grow, which has been tough - but had I not, I might always be wondering if I achieved my full potential.
So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there are some major changes afoot. And while it's not the most popular opinion, I know myself and many other professionals would rather pay more to have a streamlined, production-oriented program. Perhaps there could be two versions: a basic version that remains the current price and a pro version that cost more.
So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there are some major changes afoot. And while it's not the most popular opinion, I know myself and many other professionals would rather pay more to have a streamlined, production-oriented program. Perhaps there could be two versions: a basic version that remains the current price and a pro version that cost more.
Have there ever been any programs that started off as a basic version and then split into a more expensive professional version?I know myself and many other professionals would rather pay more to have a streamlined, production-oriented program. Perhaps there could be two versions: a basic version that remains the current price and a pro version that cost more.
It's normally the other way round, you have an expensive version and then make a lite version from it.
Look at Animation:Master, when they tried to cater for professionals it all went horribly wrong (version 9.0, I think it was).
Maybe someone should do a poll as to how much they think a Professional Edition should cost. $200, $500, $1000, $2000+ or something like that. See what the reaction is.
The problem with going Professional is you need to do marketing - word of mouth just isn't enough. Producers won't sign off $10000+ (for the whole studio) on something they've never heard of. And marketing costs will drive up the cost of the software further. It means LM going corporate.
Oh, and about paying for custom programming, I hope Rhoel and Jeff realize how expensive that is - in America you can get a decent programmer for about $5000 per month, but if they're not contractors you will have to pay double that (to compensate for the fact that you're taking them off more profitable work).
But besides all that, does anyone here really think that LM is in it for the money? I don't.
He was heard from last month, less than 4 weeks ago. And you guys are crying like it's the end of Moho, making veiled threats (yes, that's what they are) that you're going to quit using Moho or be "forced" to pirate it.
LM could be just sitting back, watching this thread unfold, to see how much he's appreciated. And apart from a couple of nice comments, for the most part people just want him to work for nothing. It wouldn't surprise me if he never came back.
You are a complete fool. If we didn't care about it -- andthe vast majority of regular contributors here have bought the program -- we wouldn't be participating in this thread. Why would we want LM to work for nothing? Any user on an upgrade path knows it's going to cost money. If we never heard from LM again I'd be increasingly worried. If we never heard from you again I'd crack open a beer...LM could be just sitting back, watching this thread unfold, to see how much he's appreciated. And apart from a couple of nice comments, for the most part people just want him to work for nothing. It wouldn't surprise me if he never came back.
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?
I went from wondering if there will be anymore updates to Moho to now wondering if its "Game Over!" for Moho.
Whatever.
It seems the last time LM made a comment here was March 21. Before that February 14. Whew! Not good....unless LM would have made the announcement that it would no longer be making comments in the Forum section; which it did not.
And that LM does not respond to any of the questions on the forum in the last couple of months as it has in the past (over 1400 forum entries by LM) - well, not very professional.
Even if he is, as some have speculated, "secretly" working on a version 6, 7 or 8, common courtesy to one´s customers is being abandoned. How long does it take to write an e-mail "I will no longer be answering any queries or questions on the forums until the next update which is expected between month x and month y, 200z."
Regarding the comments of some that "What do you expect for $99?" The same that I expect from any software company no matter what the price is.
LM set the price, not me. LM decided free updates, not me. (And for my 2-cents opinion the first version of Moho that was workable was 5.3 with its new rendering engine, before that one could not render a small size animation - the results were unusable.)
The last update to LM was 5.3 on Dec 5, 2005.
Before that 5.2 on June 24, 2005
5.1 March 23, 2005.
5.03 November 22, 2004 (and a bunch in between 5.03 and 5.1).
Is there a pattern there? No idea.
I will check back in another month or two or three.
Whatever.
It seems the last time LM made a comment here was March 21. Before that February 14. Whew! Not good....unless LM would have made the announcement that it would no longer be making comments in the Forum section; which it did not.
And that LM does not respond to any of the questions on the forum in the last couple of months as it has in the past (over 1400 forum entries by LM) - well, not very professional.
Even if he is, as some have speculated, "secretly" working on a version 6, 7 or 8, common courtesy to one´s customers is being abandoned. How long does it take to write an e-mail "I will no longer be answering any queries or questions on the forums until the next update which is expected between month x and month y, 200z."
Regarding the comments of some that "What do you expect for $99?" The same that I expect from any software company no matter what the price is.
LM set the price, not me. LM decided free updates, not me. (And for my 2-cents opinion the first version of Moho that was workable was 5.3 with its new rendering engine, before that one could not render a small size animation - the results were unusable.)
The last update to LM was 5.3 on Dec 5, 2005.
Before that 5.2 on June 24, 2005
5.1 March 23, 2005.
5.03 November 22, 2004 (and a bunch in between 5.03 and 5.1).
Is there a pattern there? No idea.
I will check back in another month or two or three.
Just like to point out to "The 400th" (400th what exactly?) that I am well aware of how much custom software writing costs and I've no doubt Rhoel is too.
Have you any idea what an animation series costs to produce? We are talking very big bucks even in the cheapest production environments like Thailand. The cost of getting some customised software written would be more than offset by the advantages accrued. Plus you have the software available for further series or features. Even better for the rest of us, any improvements are likely to surface in the main program later to our benefit.
Jeff
Have you any idea what an animation series costs to produce? We are talking very big bucks even in the cheapest production environments like Thailand. The cost of getting some customised software written would be more than offset by the advantages accrued. Plus you have the software available for further series or features. Even better for the rest of us, any improvements are likely to surface in the main program later to our benefit.
Jeff
He is.jeff wrote:I've no doubt Rhoel is [aware of the cost of custom programming] too.
He is also fully aware the cost of US programming has price itself out of the international market. It is why top software companies have moved operations overseas. Massive (the 3D agent software maker) has relocated Bangkok. Others have gone to Hyderbad, and other Indian locations. Monthly salaries here are the equivalent to one week in US/Europe.
BTW, I have a programming qualification, though not in Python (the language used for Moho). Mine are Pascal, Delphi and C++. Some of the code changes to Moho would take only a few hours (remembering the last file opened) - other months (getting the matting working correctly).
Rhoel
Jahnocli, wow, I think I hit a raw nerve. But at least you're ragging on me rather than LM.
Jeff, I'm the 400th member to sign up on this board, and I know what series cost to produce. Thanks for asking. Oh, and if it were so cost-effective to write custom software, why isn't everyone doing it? And you're missing the point - why pay $10K+ to fix a cheap bit of software, when you can spend the same money for one of the high-end solutions, where you get professional-grade support. It's a bit like adding another three wheels and an engine to a unicycle, when you could just buy a car instead.
Rhoel, LM is based in the US, as I'm sure you're aware. I'm not sure he'd be willing to relocate to Bangkok to keep your costs down. Although maybe he has, and that's why he's been out of contact.
Oh, and Moho's written in Python? I always thought it was C++.
But anyway, back on topic... I'll say it again: HE'S ONLY BEEN GONE FOUR WEEKS. GIVE THE GUY A BREAK.
Jeff, I'm the 400th member to sign up on this board, and I know what series cost to produce. Thanks for asking. Oh, and if it were so cost-effective to write custom software, why isn't everyone doing it? And you're missing the point - why pay $10K+ to fix a cheap bit of software, when you can spend the same money for one of the high-end solutions, where you get professional-grade support. It's a bit like adding another three wheels and an engine to a unicycle, when you could just buy a car instead.
Rhoel, LM is based in the US, as I'm sure you're aware. I'm not sure he'd be willing to relocate to Bangkok to keep your costs down. Although maybe he has, and that's why he's been out of contact.
Oh, and Moho's written in Python? I always thought it was C++.But anyway, back on topic... I'll say it again: HE'S ONLY BEEN GONE FOUR WEEKS. GIVE THE GUY A BREAK.
4 weeks? not wanting to be nitpicking 400th, but lm hasn´t been very much visible here since january-feb. then he/she had a baby...is lm male of female?
with all the junk spam emails on the forum i am wondering if lm forgot the password to log in to manage the forum.
my favorite: "Public Nudity -Pictures and -Videos". wonder if they are done using moho?
400th thank you for taking the time to defend lm....wonder why he can´t pop up and do it him/herself?
with all the junk spam emails on the forum i am wondering if lm forgot the password to log in to manage the forum.
my favorite: "Public Nudity -Pictures and -Videos". wonder if they are done using moho?
400th thank you for taking the time to defend lm....wonder why he can´t pop up and do it him/herself?
<--- ...It seems to me that he/she is a man 
Last edited by Rai López on Sun May 21, 2006 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.