My farewells

[chucky]

I figure it's all part of a plan to integrate a customer base into the Smith micro world and keep them there.AS will integrate with Poser (awful program) and the credit card option to purchase will be in the new library that connects to content, like cornucopia I guess.
I don't so much mind that especially in Debut, but it a bit of a gravy train rather than a useful creative tool.
Options other than buying from a library will be less and less.
Plugins or other software from the SM stable will become a necessity, no matter which one you originally bought.

If the pro version starts heading off too much in that direction then the actual creative tools will become thinner on the ground but access to buy more will become too easy.
I think Sm intend to do exactly this, they are running a business after all.
I think it's all a bit cynical, spam comes more often and Smith Micro will give us what "we need" not what we want.
By that I mean "we need" to buy more, they don't want good production lines they want customers.
So as Vern points out they use the tag 'Pro' as a trademark rather than a word with meaning.
This was exactly what people where worried about when Lost Marble became "Anime" .

I know why people want to walk, they don't want a ride.

Vern, could you please stop looking at this as a "my size fits" all situation? Eh..
_ Edit- I'd like to just add , that I didn't mean that in any way....sexually....

[heyvern]

_ Edit- I'd like to just add , that I didn't mean that in any way....sexually....

Dang! Another disappointment. I am soooo lonely.

-vern

[MadReindeer]

I might be misunderstanding the exact issue, and I can't speak from firsthand experience yet because my copy of ASP 7 is still on its way. (Sorry, I'm a traditionalist -- I ordered the physical version rather than a download.)

That said -- haven't there been entire threads on this board devoted to how to pull off a head turn in 2D? There are tutorials all about how difficult it is, and how you have to spend a huge amount of time getting points to match up for the morph, etc. When I saw that ASP7 had 3D elements, the first thing I thought was "Hey! They've finally added the 'head turn' feature right in the software! It'll be so much easier for ASP animators to pull that off now!"

Am I wrong? Won't the new 3D make this task a lot easier? And if that's the case, then isn't this an add-on that a lot of people on this board had been wanting to see happen? I only ask because a lot of posters are hammering Mike's decision to add 3D, when to me it seems like he's adding something that a lot of you wanted.

[InfoCentral]

Could my clients sue me for the money they spent because AS isn't "pro" like I told them?

Probably not but the customers of Lowrestv.com could and if anyone actually looked into it you could be facing criminal charges as well!

[GCharb]

Oh well, here I go again!

MadReindeer, head turns are real easy in ASP

I posted these two files a while back (ASP 6.2)

http://www.freakishshirts.com/temp/Homer.mov
http://www.freakishshirts.com/temp/Homer.zip

http://freakishshirts.com/temp/toonheadturn.mov
http://freakishshirts.com/temp/toonheadturn.zip

If you lok at both files, you will see that they are only one drawing, fliped then animated with layer and point motion, there is not a bone or complicated rig in sight.

As for lipsynch, also real easy. Homer was build with very few mouths shapes, then animated over the soudtrack, then I animated the headturn, the mouth animation just followed along.

Real quick real easy and good quality animation with no special rig at all and these can be as basic or as sophisticated as you like.

Some peoples go through hips and hoops to make a headturn, when in fact you only need a bit of animation knowledge.

As for a headturn with a 3D object, first of, even shaded, it is still 3D, you get very little control over lines and shading while doing it the right way gives you all the control in the world over every aspect of the drawing and animation!

Why make complicated when simple works well.

G

[MadReindeer]

Thanks, GCharb. If nothing else, my post proved that we still want/need you around here!

Gotcha on the head turn explanation. I guess what I was wondering was whether the 3D tool simplified the process, or whether it was still better to do it using the method you describe. From what you're saying, the old method is still superior. Once I have my upgrade in hand, I'll be able to test and compare.

[GCharb]

One thing I wanted to add, say you animate with a 3D model of a head, how do you lipsynch it, how do you make facial expressions, you add 2D layers on top of the 3D model? This I would like to see!

3D can only be good for props inside ASP, so, the only thing we needed for 3D models was better 2D shading, lighting and maybe a way to texture those so ASP can render better lines.

Funny thing is that in 7 you have a huge hint on how this should go, you animate in Poser, then connect with ASP for integration and render both 3D and 2d. It should have been the other way around, you animate in ASP, then connect with Poser so you could render full flesh 3D (with lighting and the such) and 2D together.

G

[lwaxana]

My view on the whole head turn debate is that interpreting depth is as much an artistic decision as interpreting movement. As a random example, some people look at a technique like smear/elongated head and think it builds brilliantly on principles like overlapping and that it provides a snappy motion. Others find it cheesy. :D

The important thing for an animator is to know how to achieve the style he/she desires. So when choosing to use switch layers, point animation, complex bone rigs, or 3d for a headturn, it's important to consider the desired result, and then to determine which method can support that style. I don't believe there is a single best solution for all animation.

[GCharb]

I don't believe there is a single best solution for all animation.

I totaly agree here (decided to follow on this thread after all! )

My post on the subject was aimed at MadReinder, who says he is new to this. Seems to me he would be wise to go with the basics and then move to a complicated rig along the way if he feels like so.

Also, complicated rigs are intriguing, intellectually speaking, but there is not a single style that cannot be achieve using traditionnal approach to animation, just look at slowtiger's work, and by learning traditional animation style, you do not limit yourself to the somewhat rigid and often mechanical looks complicated 3D rigs achieve.

Complicated rigs are, well, complicated, and Vern's rigs are the most complicated of all. To me, to start building such rigs makes it less fun to animate, and after reading on all the headaches those rigs put peoples through, I believe I am not the only one.

I use complicated rigs in 3D, some have extensive scripting attached to them to make them work properly. In Softimage we script in vbasic mostly, some have thousands of line of codes, a nightmare sometimes but needed to make very complex characters work, no need for that in 2D, from my experience at least.

Again, why make complicated when you can achieve any style with less complicated and proven way of doing things, less tylenols and more animating

Again, this is a matter of opinion, but I am sure that it would be lot easier to explain my way of making a headturn then it would be to explain, say, the way Vern rig a head for a headturn.

G

[Víctor Paredes]

selgin, 3D superpowers??? ROFL, man, you're even funnier then madrobot

Oh, didn't know we were on the "take all literally" mode. Put the word feature on my phrase, to make it more comfortable to you

[madrobot]

MadReindeer, head turns are real easy in ASP

GCharb thanks for posting those, I got a lot from them. Seems so obvious once I've seen them, just goes to show how much I have to learn

Cheers
Madrobot

[GCharb]

Oh, didn't know we were on the "take all literally" mode. Put the word feature on my phrase, to make it more comfortable to you

Selgin, I really thought you used a superlative as a joke and I really thought it was funny, sorry for the missap, I did not intend to be disrespectfull.

madrobot, yeah, those are fun example, some peoples asked why I did not put a front view in the mix, that is because this way it is sooo simple to add lipsynching in a head turn, as I did with Homer and it still looks good, the Homer took maybe 30-45 minutes to build and animate, hard to say, fun stuff.

Ahyhow, I am glad I could help!

G

[chucky]

you animate in Poser, then connect with ASP

Noooooo!
Please the longer we stay out of poser the better, yeeesh.
All this debate seems a little unnecessary , here we are sitting around talking about what the new version might be like, GIMME DEMO!
Astonishing nonsense.
Anyway before I digressed, yes, the bone and IK animation has always been great in anime, that's why there is 3d potential, and that's why anyone uses it, for the simple matter of controlling the rigged image as an animator.
In poser everything is VERY clumsy, like trying to run through a deep vat of hummus.
I wish the Kafkaesque minions at SM (sorry Sabrina ) would just flat out tell us that they are homogenising all their software into a well packaged and marketed that work with each other but not outside their own 'software circle" Then we could walk away without investing time, effort and money.
We just don't want to be the fools that stuck with anime, we want to be the ones who saw it's potential.

Oh yeah welcome back.

[Mikdog]

Ok, wait a second...is this the real GCharb, or is this zombie-GCharb?

[madrobot]

I think we all need to take a deep breath and stop making fun of zombie-GChoad. It's time to grow up. He's just trying to stand up for what he believes in, fight the good fight, follow his convictions whereever in this wide green world they may lead him and wearing his heart on his sleeve.

If that means saying goodbye to the forum in between posts, then who are we to say that's hilarious? Who are we to criticise a passionate man with his blood up? Shouldn't we be cheering this man on, inspired to great and noble deeds by his example of not posting much,... well actually maybe more, than he did 4 days ago?

I must say though that running back and forth between this forum and the splinter Anime Studio forum of 5 people grumbling about their piles is exhausting. God I guys dont ban me let cooler heads prevail I need help with scripts. Grumpy assholes. No I dont mean that. Hopefully they dont read this forum. Reprobates. Oh God I think I remember someone on their read a thread here. Srew 'em. No I dont mean that, I'm kidding. Whew.

It is funny though. It's like you're at a party, but you have to keep going out to the car because you have mates out their who aren't speaking to the host, but want to stay parked out the front with the window down because they like the music. I keep running from the car to the house, tripped over a bush and chipped a tooth, and did a wee on the letterbox but I got some on my pants. So I guess the joke's on me.