dress movement

basshole · Post by **basshole** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:34 pm

I've been using manual point binding (is that the right term?) for everything since I found out about it. It just makes everything simpler.

basshole · Post by **basshole** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:21 am

Okay, revisiting this 'cause now I'm actually at the point where I need to make a working dress. So, reading through a few other threads on the subject, I've gleaned that the dress should be its own bone layer with flexible binding. Should this bone layer be outside of the character's main skeleton bone layer? Or a child layer of it? Seems like making it a child would be better organization, and should work fine.

Also, something I haven't been able to find on here is a picture (screen grab) of what the bones in this dress layer would look like, how they're rigged in relation to the vector shape, I mean. Does someone have one?

I am intrigued by reading about slave bone script, where bones in one layer can control those in another, and its application to my problem. Would this work on the type of dress I'm trying to make? Again, this would be a loose, knee length dress, very light. So, not a tight miniskirt. I'm wondering this script is smart enough to allow the dress to morph correctly if the legs cross each other, instead of creating holes.

One last thing. . .before I knew I was going to have to do all this, I created the dress as part of the torso layer, binding the points to the upper leg bones where appropriate. To suggest the shape of the body underneath, I labored to draw the dress just so. In this new dress layer, I don't want to destroy the suggestion of the body underneath while I'm animating the dress (the shape of the hips, curve of the delicious buttock, shape of the sensuous thigh, etc).

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:41 pm

1) I'm not sure I'd use flexible binding. plenty of overlapping bone regions should be good.

2)You may find meshinstance easier than slave bones. Both can accomplish much the same stuff.

3)I would be apt to create it in the same layer as the torso as well. I would use bone offset for the dress and then 'strech' those bound points (to define the body shape beneath) to where they should be.

Just some quick thoughts.

basshole · Post by **basshole** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:37 pm

Can you explain what a "mesh instance" is?

I was thinking that maybe I was overthinking this. . .maybe I could just make a duplicate set of bones to the body bones relevant to the dress (duplicate thigh bone, etc.--these dupe bones could even be on the main skeleton bone layer instead of separate bone layer) and even bind them the same way as I would with the real bones, but just manipulate them differently to keep the dress from deforming incorrectly.

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:16 pm

Meshinstance is a layer script (Pro only) that matches the point motion of an original vector layer to any duplicate of that layer. You can find my new version here.

Layer scripts are probably overcomplicating the task though.

Probably the easiest way would be to rig the dress much like you would hair, with bone offset and all on the main skeleton layer. Then point bind some points to the leg/hip bones and use bone dynamics for the dress bones.

You could even parent the dress bones directly to the leg/hip bones. With proper angle constraints they wouldn't sway into the leg. Doing it this way, I'd probably do a kind of flaired pant leg for each leg individually. That way the dress sways more further down the leg.

basshole · Post by **basshole** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:57 pm

Any way you could provide some visuals? I'm not always good at getting what people are conveying with words only.

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:14 am

Hope that example helped.

basshole · Post by **basshole** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:08 am

Ah. Well, first, that's a lot more detailed than mine, but that view is also much more side-y than mine. Mine's a 3/4 angle. Also, your dress in that example really does look like two separate pant legs. But I understand what you mean now.

basshole · Post by **basshole** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:50 am

Ok, looks like I'm going with the dress being controlled by a completely different set of bones that will have to be manipulated separately from the leg movement (though they'll still be connected to the main skeleton bone layer). It seems like when it's all said and done, that'll take less time than trying to find a more automated solution. The problem with the "flared pants" solution is that in addition to walking, I want this character to have pretty much the range of movement that a real person would have, walk, run, jump, kneel, spread, scissor, whatever. . .all with the dress looking right in each case.

I've started rigging a chain of bones along the sides of the dress. Right now I'm getting this very raggedy pointy animation when I move these dress bones. . .doesn't look very "clothy" to me. I'll have to work on that. The basic idea seems like it'll work once I figure optimal placement of these bones, whether to bind each bone to one point or several, put angle constraints on them, etc.

Someone posted a still (or, heck, maybe it was an actual project file) that showed a chain of bones rigged along the sides of a dress. I've searched numerous threads and can't find it. . .anyone know where it might be? I'd like some kind of reference to how the rig works in terms of how many bones, how they're bound the points, etc.

chucky · Post by **chucky** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:36 am

HI Bass et al.
I am going to be doing an animation that needs a dress in it tonight.
If the file looks useful I shall post any results here, I shall try to make the dress of the type you are describing to be relevant.

basshole · Post by **basshole** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:13 am

Thanks, but, just like going on a diet or getting breast implants, don't do it for me, do it for yourself. IF it happens to benefit me, then everyone wins.

chucky · Post by **chucky** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:16 am

I wouldn't have it any other way

I am doing it anyway, but I will do the dress to be helpful, I find it an interesting challenge for my own purposes.

basshole · Post by **basshole** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:28 am

Looking forward to it. Thanks.

synthsin75 · Post by **synthsin75** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:30 am

Here's another quick example...

basshole · Post by **basshole** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:45 am

WOW! That looks friggin' amazing! My dress, and the character it's attached to, and all the other characters, and the sets and everything else, will look like dog turds next to that. That is much closer to what my character's angle looks like, although it's a little more toward the camera than my girl. That being said, how is that rigged? Is it a separate "pant leg" for each leg?

I thought maybe you did something with two separate "pants," but with the points welded to each other so that as one moves one way, it pulls the other along with it, giving the illusion of a single piece. But that doens't work for both directions of leg movement. Color me impressed.