Moho Forum

Okay, I just tried something and it didn't work.

What I'd love to do is make a bunch of neutral mouth shape phonemes, then make a smart dial that brings the corners of all of them up and down, when you turn it.

I envision a set of 12 mouths, all made from the exact same nodes, in a switch layer, and one "Smiley/Frowny" Smart Dial, to control the happiness/sadness factor. I've successfully made such a dial, but it only affected the mouth I adjusted to make it, not all of them, like I was hoping.

This is either completely impossible, or there's a small box in a menu somewhere I need to check. It could easily go either way. Thanks!

I envision a set of 12 mouths, all made from the exact same nodes, in a switch layer, and one "Smiley/Frowny" Smart Dial, to control the happiness/sadness factor. I've successfully made such a dial, but it only affected the mouth I adjusted to make it, not all of them, like I was hoping.

It should work. My recent rigs at work have a mouth switch containing standard 'neutral' phoneme drawings which can gradually change expressions by turning an 'Emotion' SBD. (i.e., dial to right for 'happier', left for 'sadder/madder'.) The individual mouth drawings don't need to have the same point count or order for this effect. Each mouth drawing layer or group can have its own animation associated to the SBD. You just need to create a 'corners up' and 'corners down' animation for each side of the SBD, which only takes a couple of seconds to create using the magnet tool.

You only need to use the same points for each layer if you intend to interpolate between the mouth shapes layers themselves. Personally, I don't bother with that--this kind of blending tends to look kinda 'mushy' during lip sync animations. Trying to preserve the points also becomes troublesome and limiting for every new mouth shape I decide to add. And, as already mentioned, it's not necessary to do this for an 'Emotion' SBD.

I also find I can draw better mouth shapes using the appropriate number of points for each pose. By freeing myself from the point order restriction, I can also use multiple layers (mouth, teeth, tongue, mask, etc.,) inside a mouth shape group inside the mouth switch for more pose possibilities.

To transition between mouth shapes (layers or groups), I prefer to push the points for a frame or two using the Magnet tool or by simply transforming (squash, stretch, slant) the mouth switch layer itself between phoneme keyframes. (The latter is faster and less messy.) This 'in-between' tweak takes only takes a few seconds to add, and the keys are reusable as needed. When it's done well, I think, this approach looks more natural than shape interpolation.

BTW, I normally add 'Emotion' animations to the SBD only for the standard phonemes. For 'special' mouths shapes (i.e., grimace, yell, big smile, etc.,) I prefer to make variations as needed and add them to the bottom of the Switch layer. The 'special' mouths tend to be exaggerated emotions so I let them be standalone drawings rather than combo drawings for the SBD.

Hope this helps.

Hey Fonce,
Yep you can certainly do it.
Maybe, you need interpolate on?
If it gets too smooth just use lots of holds and turn down the frame rate for the switch layer or even make all the keys steps?
Anyway here's proof.



Oh I see Dennis answered largely this just when I was posting. Anyway there ya go.
Oh also I agree with the throry of separate drawings/switches for extremes.
This was a bit of an experiment for a minor character, others of the same piece had more switches with expressions.

Greenlaw and Chucky-

Thank you both SO much for helping me. I figured out what I was doing wrong!

At first, I was trying to make several mouths, THEN make the Smart Dial, but it was only affecting the mouth I used to create it, none of the rest. No good.

Then I realized that if I made the first mouth, made the smart dial, THEN duplicated the first mouth to make the second, it worked! However, if I changed anything about the dial, the changes weren't reflected in the second mouth.

But THEN I tried it by making reference layers from the first mouth, instead of just duplicating it, and now it works like I want it to! Make a new mouth, screw with it, then screw with the smart dial and it all stays working! Pretty sneaky, sis!

Hurray! Triumph! Thanks again! (And Chucky, that purple guy is impressive!)

Hey Fonce , glad you got it working.
Of course reference is the way to go .
I'm hoping referencing will have even more flexible update options down the track.
I remember when it first appeared, my immediate thought was that I could do this type of rig much more easily, of course I forgot when I wrote this last reply.
Strange though what you are saying about the before/after manipulations, that sounds very odd, I will remember that and watch out for it.

Glad you found a solution, and thanks for describing what you finally did.

There are so many ways to do these things, it boggles the mind doesn't it? If I've learned anything over the years, it's that no single trick will work for every situation, so I'm thankful that Moho offers many ways to adapt.