Moho Forum

This thread is for any questions you all may have regarding professional paid work. What to charge, how to protect yourselves, contracts, deadlines, schedules, character licensing...

Please feel free to ask anything related to this topic and I'll endovour to answer all your questions.

Cheers

GK

Do you use a standard contract for every job or do you tailor a contract to suit the scale of the job?

Cool!


I'd really like to know the following, because I'm nearing a pitch for my HAPPYLAND animation thing:

How much do you charge, how do you protect yourself, how do you go about acquiring a contract, and do you submit deadlines and schedules, and what's the deal with character licensing?

Thanks,

Mike

BunyanFilms wrote:Do you use a standard contract for every job or do you tailor a contract to suit the scale of the job?

It really depends on the job, though we do have a standard contract, which is the base of everything. We then add certain information that the job may require.

You have to be sure you cover as much information as possible. Try and think of everything that you may require and be required of you then add certain clauses protecting you and your client in the evnt of such incidents.

If you are a service company, or working for a major network (or even a small one for that matter) you will usually be handed a contract. Its always a good idea to seek legal advice on these but almost all networks and production companies have a standard contract.

An important thing to remember is if you do a job for anyone and you hire outside help, be sure to get an 'assignment of rights' document signed by the team you hire - this is a simple document that states that all work anyone you hire produces, the rights belong to you (you do this because almost all contracts you sign dictate that you hand over all rights of the work, if you hire outside help and don't retain their rights (interlectual and artistic) it could be problematic later on). Most artists will sign this document as long as they agree before hand.

You should always give outside help a contract when they work with you - its security that protects you and them - you usually add the assignmet of rights clause to the main employment contract.

GK

Mikdog wrote:How much do you charge, how do you protect yourself, how do you go about acquiring a contract, and do you submit deadlines and schedules, and what's the deal with character licensing?

Thanks,

Mike

Fees can change depending on the style of animation, amount of work, quality of the animation, whether its 2d or 3d. There are so many factors that its very difficult to pin it down to an exact figure.

You should be aware of general rates within you area/country. A good way to do this is to produce a bogus job and inquire to a production company for a price. This will give you a general idea of a price per minute. The other way you could do it is to call animators, storyboard artists, layout artists and get a general price they charge per minute. One thing you must remember is to add your production company fee and overheads onto your overall budget. A production company fee is usually 15% of the Below the Line budget (BTLB is the cost of the main production, this does not include producer fees, director fee, exec producer fees, scriptwriting, line producing, development and research)
Overheads are usualy around 10% of the BTLB (this is your running studio costs). ALso you will need to add a contingency amount (usually between 5 and 10%) this is also worked out from the BTLB and is for those unforseen situations that always occure in production.

As I said in the last post, if you are selling or pitching to a network they usually provide you with a development or production agreement. On any job you should always ask for a contract - if they don't have one (which is very worrying) then it would be best for you to invest in one. They can be bought online (very standard) or with an entertainment lawyer. If you are pitching to a network and a deal is put in place it is in your best interests to aquire the services of an entertainment lawyer. Most will provide services with a view to be paid after the deal comes through - some even provide services for free for the development with a view to having a larger payment when production comes along.

You will usually negotiate with the network as far as deadlines are concerned and work out something that appeals to both - all networks want the show yesterday and they will pressure you to deliver as soon as possible. You have to be prepared to work your nuts off cause the deadlines they always give are extremly tight.

The best way to get the deadline you want is to provide a schedule that is attached to your budget. Give yourself enough time to confidently finish the work and insure you leave a little time for unforseen circumstances.

Character licensing is what you do when asked to design the character for a job. There are two thing your client can do license or buyout. If they choose license be sure that a contract states the rules of said license. Where and how many times it can be shown as well as in what media and format. A buyout is when they acquire all rights to the character from you. The price you charge depends on the job and what you think your work is worth. If you are selling to a network you will assign all rights to them in return for a deal that hopefully pays you well to develope and make your production as well as future payments upon success of the project.

Good luck with the project!

GK

Hey GreyKid, about payment...

Do you get paid after your work is complete or do you ask for some upfront? I guess if you sign a contract, a later payment would be fine. Have you ever had issues with payment before?

GreyKid Pictures wrote:
Character licensing is what you do when asked to design the character for a job. There are two thing your client can do license or buyout. If they choose license be sure that a contract states the rules of said license. Where and how many times it can be shown as well as in what media and format. A buyout is when they acquire all rights to the character from you. The price you charge depends on the job and what you think your work is worth. If you are selling to a network you will assign all rights to them in return for a deal that hopefully pays you well to develope and make your production as well as future payments upon success of the project.

GK

So let's say someone comes to you with an idea for a character(s) and they want you to make a short pilot so they can start shopping it around to the networks... You design the characters. Should you assign them a license for the purpose of pitching it and then if the cartoon is bought by a network, have them buyout the rights? Do you lose all rights to those characters then (basically they could take your designs and hire new animators and you would no longer have any rights to use them?)

For instance, John Kricfalusi created Ren and Stimpy- which Nick bought. Nick owns the rights to them now don't they? Can John K. no longer use them as characters? But then that doesn't explain how he was able to do the new Adult Party R&S cartoons... I'm confused.

I'm also interested about that.

Although, Nick probably has license to do whatever they want with the episodes he created for Nick, but the concept and characters remain property of John.

Great stuff here so far... Thanks for the info...

Like jhbmw007 (great guy, by the way), I also have a number of free-lance gigs in development... and my biggest concerns are limiting the use of -- and retaining the rights to -- the character(s) as much as possible, so that I control how, when and where they're used, and that I'm compensated accordingly...

Does anyone know if there's a sample contract template online which I can adapt and use?

Doesn't have to be too complicated -- I'm just fairly new to this end of the industry, and I want to make sure things are worded properly, y'know?

Thanks...

hi i am new to this forum but i am really glad i found it especially this thread

I have just started out as freelance illustrator/ designer and i would like to know what the going rate is for coming up with:

'ideas/ concepts and producing artwork/story boards for ecards and winks...

i am about to sell one of 'my ideas and characters(artwork)' which i have been offered a price for not a bad price but not sure if its a good price as i was expecting more but that is based on publishing rates in uk, the internet and animation is a whole new area for me when it comes to prices

also i live in the uk and its been quoted in euros..do you still charge in pounds as the exchange rate chops and changes or in euros?

and if you have to sign a contract which i do can i still use it as part of my portfolio if i have no more rights to it?

any suggestions?

many thanks

Jeez, its been a while since I started this post. Sorry for the insane delay in replying, lets press on!

@J.Baker

When it comes to negotiating your contract you should ask for some money upon signing - especially if it is a job that may take more than a few weeks.

Depending on the length of your project you can structure a payment schedule that best suits the job. After all you don't want to be caught with no finances and still be in the middle of production.

Most clients will agree to a payment up front - it is a show of good faith and professionalism.

Our standard terms and conditions are usually 50% of the budget upon signing 50% upon delivery of final product. This usually is for job that last between 2-3 months. Longer jobs need a different payment schedule with you and your client agreeing on 'milestones' for payment.

For example: You may agree that 25% of the budget is paid upon signing 40% upon completion and approval of animation and the final % upon delivery. You should structure your milestones so that they help you not hinder you. After all the client wants you to do the job and finish it - you can't focus 100% if you are worrying about money.

@jhbmw007

What you are asking is a service job on your part. If someone was to come to you with an idea for a show and give you a budget for the pilot you would include character design buyouts in your price as the person who's idea it is would obviously like to retain all rights. In a situation like that you have to asses what is the best price. Most clients want to retain the characters and so will pay a buyout or flat fee. You have to decide if that is good enough for you as an artist. If the show is sold to a network then the network would own all the rights to the show and most likely re-develop it.

It is essential that your client or a person that works for you sign an assignment of rights form to cover yourselves and them. In the event that your client sells his/her show to a network the network will want to have 100% guarantee that they/you own the all rights. The last thing a network wants is to have some artist rear his/her head when the show is a success with a lawsuit - it can happen so make sure you are covered.

As far as Nick and John K are concerned we don't know the details of their deal. Though I assume that Nick own Ren & Stimpy, John K is the creator and maybe he has some kind of ownership deal with the network. And Adult Party R&S - that's a good question,there are a number of possible answers - maybe Spike TV acquired a license, I may just poke my nose into the www to see!

@Mikdog

No I doubt John K owns the concept or characters, from my experience the network will own everything and give the creator a nice back end deal.

@SlatersGarage

Your client should provide a contract - to which you should negotiate the character details.

@kd

You have to price your own work accordingly, based on how long it take to produce (and you should be level headed about it). A lot of freelance artists have an hourly rate, I used to work on a daily fee (it was between 250 - 350 pounds per day depending on the job) but now a days many clients give a flat fee for the job.

Is the company you are selling the product to in the UK? if so i'd ask to be paid in GBP that way you don't have to pay for the exchange. Make sure its written in your contract that you are to be paid in GBP and make sure the price is in GBP. Most companies will not have a problem with it.

You are usually allowed to show your work in a portfolio. All you need is written consent from the owner. The best way of doing it is to have a clause added into the contract that states you can use the work for your portfolio. The company will usually request that you state their name and ownership on the work - which is a good thing anyway as it shows you have clients.

GK

Hello all!
In my life as an artist I have learned a few things that form the basis of charging for fees:
1. Is it a 'one shot' or a multiple-do? (or on-going)
2. Do I have to hire others? (sub out work)
3. Overhead?
4. What's my final take-home, what will it cost me to make this money?

Every artist, who works on his/her own is confronted with the basic question 'how much do I charge?'. There is a simple recipe:
Even if you are a 'newbie', you have to consider 'time, material and overhead'.
TIME - What is your time worth to you. Do you want to charge by the hour, by the job, or by the contract?
a. By the hour- This is good for small work that is contracted from someone else. Or that is one shot, not over say five days (as a rule of thumb).
b. By the job gets more complicated. You have to figure a basic time fee for yourself (based at an hourly rate). You have to consider any fees for co-workers (hired help) or sub-contracted work that will be employed in the project. AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SCHEDULE OF WORK ORDER AND DELIVERY DATES (which is one of the hardest things to calculate in the creative arts when first starting out...). You have to budget for materials, equipment use, and overhead (rental of space equipment, electricity, gas... lease payments... mileage for any running around to get items supplies... yeah it can get this complicated).
c. By the Contract: a 'contract' is a legal form, you should have a firm grasp of what is being said in ANY CONTRACT. Because you trust a person or you think 'they are a good person'... they may be, but if you come down with so much as a bad cold and miss a deadline... you could be liable for a 'derelection' or be made to eat a percentage of costs, or be left liable for costs. Never sign any contract unless you understand the liabilities and responsibilities on all parties involved.
MATERIAL - This includes any equipment, non-disposable or disposable materials used in the manufacture of you art form. Materials should be considered right down to the last kneadable eraser or pencil!!! Don't sell yourself short. You have to put ink and paper in your printer, o/h or cel film for your scanner, buy pencil/marker kits or sets, watercolor paper, vid screen paper, clay, whatever... and don't forget CD's, DVD's, film development, ANYTHING you use in the production is a material cost.
OVERHEAD - If you rent space specifically for your work, or you have a 'studio', or a vehicle that you use to go places to get things done... that is overhead. Does your work require a LOT of electricity? Put a separate meter on your main power supply to the space if possible or figure the percentage of usage from your bill... water, garbage disposal... rentals of equipment, lab smocks, UV glasses... you get the idea. Whatever you have that is not directly involved in the artistic process but necessary for you to accomplish it is 'overhead'.
It is all part and parcel of being 'You, Inc.'
Equipment can be tricky, that is more for a matter of ongoing business matters. If you buy a piece of equipment and it is for a project do you charge the patron for the equipment or not? If it is ONLY for that ONE time... yes you can. IF on the other hand it is something you need for the shop anyway... you can incorporate a small cost, and calculate it as part of 'overhead' and depreciate the piece over time... if you want to find out more check out your tax codes locally... The simplest thing is to just buy it and add it in within its proper cost of process.
P.S., Every artist in the beginning wants to sell him or herself to a customer for recognition or for the building of a portfolio, just remember you can fudge some of the time... but in the end it is you that loses. What are you willing to lose... the whole idea is to gain, experience and income to do more... hope this helps you 'live long and prosper'.
P.P.S. During the writing of this, 'experience' had many fingers pointing at me saying, "YEAH RIGHT! DUMMY!"... it takes a while to learn for some of us. To please other people's wishes is all good and fine: the other person feels just fine. How do you feel? Got the money to prove it?

This question or issue has come up in another "heated" discussion. The argument was whether AS is suitable for a large studio production workflow.

Without giving away trade secrets how does AS fit into your production work flow? Are there problems you encountered and solved? Do you use any asset management tools? If so how does AS fit into it. How do you handle shuffling of files and file back up or sharing from a server?

-vern

heyvern wrote:This question or issue has come up in another "heated" discussion. The argument was whether AS is suitable for a large studio production workflow.

Without giving away trade secrets how does AS fit into your production work flow? Are there problems you encountered and solved? Do you use any asset management tools? If so how does AS fit into it. How do you handle shuffling of files and file back up or sharing from a server?

-vern

And, how many animators do you have using AS on a single project?

As a very "amateurish beginner" in animation, I think AS could be a good choice as a professional tool in animation studios.
10 animators at 10 computer, the costs for for the software are about $2000.
Do that with an high priced "high end" software. You would need much more money
Ahm, that's what an outsider does think...

Thank you for listening...
And now, back to the professional postings,