Root bone moving versus non-moving

[buijon]

I have started 2 characters in separate files. The both have the root bone as the bottom of the spine, and another upper body bone, just like the tutorial. When i use the manipulate bones tool on one, the lower bone stays stationary, but on the other character file the lower bone moves around when i move the mouse up and down. I made both characters the same way...why the different results?

*edit*
i tried making a few new files and starting the bone structure again, and every time they both move each other....so its the file that doesn`t move that has an issue. Any ideas what it could be? Its just those 2 bones. Now that i think about it i did start making the arm bones first, then made they rest and reparented some stuff...and made the spine the root by using Alt. I`d be willing to send the file out (or upload it if my ftp will work) to avoid having to start over.

[Rasheed]

Alt click only selects a bone. You still need to use the Reparent Bone tool to make the child -> parent connection between two existing bones.

If you need to create a new root bone, hit the Return key (that deselects all bones) and add a single bone, which will become your new root bone. You can then select a child bone with Alt click and use the Reparent Bone tool to connect the child to the new root bone. Once you have relinked all child bones to the new root bone, you can safely delete the old root bone.

Also remember that when a bone is selected, Add Bone will automatically create a relationship between the new bone and the previously selected bone. Only if no bones are selected, you will create a single unbound bone when you add a bone. If more than one bone is selected, Add Bone will be grayed out, and you cannot add a bone.

• no bones selected -> Add bone creates a root bone
• one bone selected -> Add bone creates a child bone
• multiple bones selected -> Add bone is unavailable

[buijon]

i tried it as you said, and the new root bone does the same thing. When I manipulate it it spins all vectors that are incased in the bone layer instead of affecting the area of the image its on like every other bone does. And when i move the child it remains frozen :\ Can i send you the file to look at?

i looked at the file that opens when AS is opened, and his body parts all move independant. I`m really confused. How should the bones be moving? Should pulling an arm down move the shoulder/body bones down too? In the demo file they are all moving independent.

[heyvern]

Have you done all the tutorials with AS?

It sounds like you are talking about layer binding versus point binding of bones. The file that opens by default uses image layers that are bound to bones (if it's the same Anime style character that opens for me).

Another thing to check; if a bone moves more points than it should, adjust the strength or influence of the bone, or make sure you haven't bound points to it.

The bones moving incorrectly is still a parenting issue. You have the bone hierarchy set up wrong. When you click on the parenting button you should see exactly how each bone is connected to each other bone.


I am still having trouble understanding precisely what is wrong. Are the bones not moving right? Or are the vectors not moving right?

It sounds like two unrelated issues... but I'm not sure.

-vern

[Genete]

If more than one bone is selected, Add Bone will be grayed out, and you cannot add a bone.

• no bones selected -> Add bone creates a root bone
• one bone selected -> Add bone creates a child bone
• multiple bones selected -> Add bone is unavailable

Sorry if question is obvious:
How do you select more than one bone?
(I cannot check it now because Moho/AS is not at hand?
Thanks in advance.

[slowtiger]

You can only select one bone at a time.

If you need to move a set of bones, you have to move the complete bone layer. Some of us prefer to do the whole skeleton in a single bone layer, others like to do separate bone layers for right arm, left arm, body, right leg, left leg, etc.

[Nolan Scott]

Select the “Select Bone” Tool (B), hold down the Schift-key
and select as many bones you like.
(very useful for applying "Bone Constraints" or "Lock Bones")

Cheers
Nolan

[Rasheed]

You can only select one bone at a time.

That is not true anymore, because since Moho 5.3 (or was it 5.2?) you can select several bones at once using the Shift key, as Nolan Scott wrote.

And it is possible to have several independent bone structures in a single bone layer, as an alternative to one single skeleton in a single bone layer or several sub-skeletons stored in their respective bone layers. It isn't very useful in this example, but IIRC there were some posters on this forum who had a use for it on occasion.





Here is the Zipped AS file, for anyone who is interested.

Take care.

[buijon]

well as i have made a few more tests I realized that once you add the legs (parented to the hips) the root bone (hips) lock into place instead of moving when the upper body bone moves. It seems to anchor in place, so to make the character bend down you need to lock the feet and then translate in to pull it down. But can the hips also rotate without the whole character rotating around it?

[heyvern]

I usually create a bone that is the root parent of the whole body. The back/spine are not a child of the hips. The hips and the last bone of the spine are children of... uh... HIPS 2: Return of control ®.



Actually... the hips in the original context I call the pelvis? I don't know... whatever. The TOP hips control the WHOLE body. The pelvis and back are independant children to the hips.

Then I can rotate the pelvis without rotating the whole body. I can rotate the spine and pelvis independently.

I use the HIPS to rotate and translate the whole body... use the pelvis to just rotate the legs.

The pelvis bone points down so it rotates at the end of the spine. The hips bone I have sticking out to the side so it's easier to grab. The base would be in the same spot as the pelvis.

-vern

[myles]

Umm, what Vern said.


Oh, what the heck, I'll post my version too.

But can the hips also rotate without the whole character rotating around it?

Only if the hips are not the patriarch (root) of the hierarchy (bone tree).

If you want the hips to move you might need to build a hierarchy like this:

--patriarch (or root or "main character bone" or "HIPS 2: Return of control ®" )
----hips (or pelvis)
------legs
----torso
------arms
------neck/head

Although I usually add at least 2 torso bones and a shoulder equivalent to the hips/pelvis, so you get

--patriarch
----hips
------legs
----lower-spine (torso 1)
------upper-spine (torso 2)
--------neck/head
--------shoulders
----------arms

Regards, Myles.

[heyvern]

What Myles said too...



I also have an extra bone or two at the shoulder/arm junction depending on the character.

I have of late, gone another step beyond this...

I create a bunch of spine bones that use a smaller chain of "control" bones to distribute the smooth motion using constraints.

For instance... 6 spine bones that control the mesh. The 6 spine bones are controlled using rotation constraints on 3 control bones completely outside of the skeleton. I get smooth bending of the spine with only 2 or 3 bone key frames to worry about. And I hide the constrained bones so all I see are the 3 simple control bones.

Plus I can put those control bones anywhere... scale them to any size... move them around... whatever. They only control the bending of the spine, neck and head so their translation, location and size have no other effect.

I LOVE this. So wonderful... I'm using it right now!

-vern

[dekka]

hi heyvern,
i like your idea in your last post but i am not sure if get it. (the spine with the outside control bones). would it be possible to post an example of it or to describe it a little more. thank you

[heyvern]

I slapped this together... gives kind of an idea of how it works and what can be done with it.

Take note how I moved the control bones around on different frames if they get in my way.

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/bone_rig2.mov

http://www.lowrestv.com/moho_stuff/bone_rig.zip

-vern

[Rasheed]

Wow, Vern, that is a neat trick to use for complex character rigs. I never had thought of that. Thanks a lot!