Moho Animation Forum

This is another one of those 'half baked' ideas I get but I just saw what must be the one millionth post regarding head turns in Moho. It made me think. Anytime you have something so requested by users it seems like a possible new tool might be worth considering. I'm just tossing this out as a general idea.

Is it possible that a script, or small collection of scripts, a new tool, prebuilt head objects of some kind, a new keyframe interpolation mode or some other process might be created to allow users to either drag and drop a 'base' head or wizard 'insert front view' insert side view here, smooth or fast turn?' to allow those who need it one quick way to deal with turns?

Maybe with all the talent here some ideas will come out that will prove useful and it sounds like it could be a big selling feature based on how often it is asked.

Sounds good to me, but then it takes the fun out of animating the head turn, and thats the real beauty of it; Having to scratch heads and chins, and then suddenly stumbling on a solution. Some people need to ask questions... some who can't search the forum, but atleast they get a more, hands on experiance.

Though having a button or some options make it seem like clip art in a publisher document... that i-couldn't-be-arsed-to-do-it-myself type of thing. It'll make moho user lazy and then they'll be requesting a "animate my whole animation button"

Though i think the script should be more of a mod to the switch layers, as they seem to already to put this tool to use, but not in a useful, nor effective enough form for me.

I think it likely that more the 75% of the Moho users are beginners or other non-professional animators because of its low cost. Makes it a great tool to explore. Because of this it may be that a feature like this might be a useful selling point -in fact this large group of Moho noobs probably will form the bulk of LM's revenue unless he changed the price or offered a stepped up version or add on. So it makes sense to add some features to address them.

I learned html and BASIC a long time ago, the 'old fashioned' way. But despite my protestations I eventually found that it made sense to use a html editor to make the tables and then a CSS editor easier than using my reference books to make stuff compatible and then Visual Basic was so much more fun that stodgy BASIC .... my long winded point is that tools that speed up a process may be useful for more advanced users as well who know when it is appropriate and can refine the result as they understand what is behind it.

You probably don't have to dumb down the whole process so it is one button, just a way to get them started; partially generate something?

If you look at the hugely popular Poser I'd say 99% of the users are people generating simple art by posing and rendering, but that doesn't mean that some serious work isn't being done by others. It also means that this huge base of people who are eager to express themselves with art, but lack certain skills or training have driven the financial success of the company.

So if some balanced way could be found it might make the product more appealing, bring in more users, more dollars, more product development?

ohhh, good one Yup i see what you mean about attracting different audiences and yup i think it would be great to have a feature like this.

Honestly, I'd rather see moho have 3D vector like programs such as swift3d.

Take a look at these examples:
http://www.erain.com/products/swift3d/examples/
as you can see, 3D vector is VERY powerful...

This program however lacks bone support which totally removes the appeal for animating in it VS moho...

Importing 3D models just doesn't allow the flexability as the rest of moho. Which causes the 3D objects to look somewhat out of place sometimes.

We already have 3D space, so I think we should be able to use 3D vector modeling.

I realise there are "other 3d programs to do that". However, 3D vector would remove all the "how do we make a head turn" and moving around splines and turning them on and off to "fake 3D"

Realistically, while people argue to "keep moho 2D" there's still that part of your brain that wants and needs a 3D aspect to make everything about your animation fluent. Turning heads, hand movement, and body rotation being the key factors in most cases.

A 3D aspect for moho may not be for everyone, granted. But it would allow those that like that type of thing to do it, and those that don't wouldn't have to use it if they don't want to.

I threw this idea up a long time ago, maybe we'll get lucky and see it in a future update. it would really accel animation and remove all the "how do we turn a head" type problems people are having.

The head turn "gizmo" could be a collection of styles that could be modified or used as templates.

For instance maybe they are very very simplistic outline shapes with guides in place for eyes and mouth, etc. The new user could use these as guidelines or starting points.

All though... they could be doing this on their own using traditional portrait drawing lessons.

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These are just my opinions about using 3D elements in Moho or any 2d animation.

Ever since Disney's "Beauty And The Beast" I have hated "3D" in "2D".

It just doesn't... look right to me.

In "Futurama" it sticks out like a sore thumb when they use it on some of the city scape fly bys or with the ship.. I have seen it in other "2d" animations. It just pops right out of the context of the style.

3D is too... "perfect".

For me the whole "head turn" issue isn't aboout making it "easier"... it is about doing it with 2d so it doesn't look 3D.

As soon as you have a perfect mathematical 3D shape moving around in a hand drawn 2d environment... it sticks out...

your brain suddenly says:
"Wow! Hold on there. What the heck was that? Why doesn't EVERYTHING look like that? That was kind of different!"

I don't use "full blown 3D" with Moho (been playing with pseudo 3d using layers and z offsets... not the same thing to me)... and I probably won't. I am sure many do use it to great effect and it looks wonderful...

... but to me it sticks out. It is different from hand drawn 2d animation. It is 3D and it sticks out as different when the two are mixed.

I draw my head turns by hand... I like it. It's fun. But that's just me.

p.s. before using moho I had never done a "head turn" in 2d animation before. I never had to since I always used 3D apps. If you are an artist with a modicum of talent... I think you should be able learn to do head turns.

-Vern

Like I said, it would be up to the person to choose wether to use it or not.

Moho (as said by Lost Marble already) is meant for COMPUTER animation, NOT traditional animated drawings.

I understand what you mean by "stick out" but as I remarked already "TV" doesn't neccessarily show the greatest stuff (Look at south park).

Anyway, the 3D vector in swift3d is alot diffrent then that of a true polygon modeling program such as 3d studio max. Just as there's diffrent styles and types of 3D modeling methods in various programs.

Sure you can make them all look quite the same with texture mapping and such, but the underlaying mesh is diffrent.

Take a model from Animation Master for example and export it to a 3ds file format. Loading that into 3d studio max won't give you what you had exactly in AM because thier methods and point manipulation works diffrently.

Moho already has a very easy to use and understand method of doing things. If they add the ability to put points and connect them using the Z axis as well, think of the possabilities. Honestly, the only thing stopping the 3D modeling method I talk about is the Z axis and being able to connect points in that manner. If we think about it, we're almost there already...

Use Swift3D then. I thought MoHo's aim was to be primarily 2D animation. Adding all this meshing and stuff add's a different learning curve, and as stated in Bupaje's other post, it's intended more for beginners or people looking to do something quickly and effectivly.

heyvern, i use 3d to head turns. and i don't thinks this looks too perfect. i always try to make a good combination with 2d.
i hate the 3d too 3d, but i think 3d is a good solution for some people, and works fine if you know how.

Cribble, just because there's mesh type support doesn't mean you have to use it. The point is, there's certain things that you may want a mesh type thing for.

Some people would use it alot, others would just use it for certain things, and some wouldn't use it at all.

Like I said already it would be there for you to use IF you felt like it. The learning curve wouldn't change one bit for people such as yourself that don't want to use it. That's my point.