How to find the path to a referenced layer

[rickevertsz]

I opened a file from about a year ago. It has referenced layers that show as up-to-date (little green curved arrow). However, if I select "Locate Original Layer" nothing happens. I am on v14.3. So, how to find them?

Looking inside the project zip file, I found this:

"layer_ref_fileref":{"relativeTo":"Absolute",
"path":"/Users/rick/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~CloudDocs/Docs/EduPlayroom/Apps/Thingers/Moho/_components/_referenced/hands/Upright Hands - palm view (referenced).moho",
"complex_path":"../hands/Upright Hands - palm view (referenced).moho"},
"layer_ref_path":"/Users/rick/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~CloudDocs/Docs/EduPlayroom/Apps/Thingers/Moho/_components/_referenced/hands/Upright Hands - palm view (referenced).moho",
"layer_ref_same_doc":false,
"layer_ref_mod_date":1723549610,

That is where the referenced file still is (I was worried that I had moved it sometime in the last year). All of the files are on my local disk (downloaded from iCloud). Could it be an iCloud issue? I know curious behaviour can happen if the files are in the cloud but not on the local disk, but in this case, they are all downloaded.

So, why can't Moho locate the original layer?

I know this is a pretty obscure/technical question, but it must be a problem faced by others, given that it's easy to accidentally move a referenced file (which I didn't do in this case). I've opened other files that have references and they all suffer from the same issue. Everything was fine a year ago when I last worked on this project. Pretty depressing!

[Greenlaw]

A while back, I recall there was a problem working with Moho files saved to Dropbox. I think the issue had to do with how files are updated and synced in Dropbox, so maybe it's the same with iCloud?

I don't know if the Dropbox issue is still present in 14, as I avoid working directly in cloud storage directories and will only work in local and network directories. If the cloud storage were used only for backup storage and transfer, though, it shouldn't be a problem. I do that all the time with no trouble.

But, it sounds like you're more or less doing the same, so I'm not sure what's up. Hmm.

[Greenlaw]

I just tested the Reveal Source Image button, and it seems to work okay.

When the file was saved a year ago, were you using a different version of Moho? If it was saved from an older version, I wonder if some data got mixed up or lost when imported to the newer version.

[rickevertsz]

Hi Greenlaw. Thanks for responding.

I was on Moho 14, which I upgraded to in 2023.

I have everything in iCloud because I like to have all my graphical resources in the one folder and work on them on the iPad. If it's going to be an issue, I will move the Moho files out. But it used to work fine (I think). I'm not sure when I moved the Moho files to iCloud, but I think it was working initially. Not 100% sure though. I haven't touched Moho for a year, so my memory is a bit fuzzy about that time.

The "Reveal Source Image" option works for an imported image in that same file. However, the "Locate Original Layer" doesn't work. It references a layer in another file. I give all of those files the suffix "(referenced)" so that I remember not to move them!

I'll see if anyone else has any ideas. I'll move out of iCloud as a last resort, as I'll surely have to change all of the references. The Moho file seems to have both an absolute and a relative file reference. If it was just relative, I could move the whole directory and it would work fine. Not sure why it has both types of path.

[Greenlaw]

You could try Gather Media. If Moho is able to find and load the external files, it should be able to move a copy them to a common location so you at least know where they are. Not an ideal solution, but it may help in a pinch.

Re: paths: I don't remember the exact rules, but, yes, Moho uses both relative and absolute. I believe it uses one method first and then switches to the other if that fails. (I hope this part of Moho gets more user-defined options in the future, as Moho makes undesired assumptions about certain paths (like output directories and output filenames, for example) that I had to come up with workarounds for.

Hope this helps.

[rickevertsz]

Unfortunately, gather media doesn't help. It's not media that are missing, it's the references to referenced layers that are broken.

Moho shouldn't fail silently like this. It should at least pop-up an alert that says something like:
"Can't find referenced file: <path>/filename.moho"

I've submitted a support ticket. I'll return with any help I receive.

Cheers.

[Greenlaw]

Ah, I see...I must have misunderstood some parts of the situation.

Here's what I can tell you about Imported References: This is a helpful feature when it works, but it's known to be a bit flaky in the recent releases of Moho.

The main issue for me is that the imported Reference layers are prone to getting unwanted keyframes in every possible channel. I first saw this problem way back when I was working on Boss Baby: Back In Business, and fixing these unwanted keyframes became such a hassle, we would eventually break the Reference connections completely and continue working with the rigs as normal Moho layers.

I know it's a somewhat different situation for you, but perhaps breaking the Reference connections is the only workable solution here, too? To do this, go to the top level of each hierarchy in the referenced layers, r-click and select Break Layer Reference. This will, of course, remove the features of a Reference layer, but it will also turn the entire hierarchy into a regular 'self-contained' Moho setup.

FWIW, I avoid using Reference Layers (imported and self-contained) due to the unwanted keyframe issue and will only use them when necessary. Other users have reported different issues with Reference Layers, but I think the problems are somewhat related. Lost Marble is aware of these problems, and they are busy working on a solution.