Moho Forum

A strange glitch found today:
I have a master file of a character, imported this into separate project files and all was fine. Suddenly in a new file the smart bones didn't work smoothly as expected, only had min - middle - max position. I could repair this by going into each action and adding a key for the smart bone at frame 1.

- Is a key for the smart bone in frame 0 required?
- Shouldn't this key being created automatically when I create a smart bone?
- How did that smart bone work in several files, and suddely stopped?

Hi. Never seen that myself.

I have a feeling that everything I'm about to say, you know already, so apologies in advance.

slowtiger wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:40 pm - Is a key for the smart bone in frame 0 required?
- Shouldn't this key being created automatically when I create a smart bone?

I think a key at action frame 0 gets created when things are moved later in the timeline; but not at frame 1. So I don't think a key at frame 0 is, as such, necessary but "impossible to avoid" if there's any later keyframe.

slowtiger wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:40 pm - How did that smart bone work in several files, and suddely stopped?

The only possibility I can currently think of for the "suddenly stopped" is a name clash. Were there any other bones in the file into which the character was imported?



If none of the above -- in what version of Moho was the master file created? and imported? import by copy or by reference?

And I made a mistake, should've been "Is a key for the smart bone in frame 1 required?"

Name clash could be a hint - all characters share the exactly same seup, so bones and actions are named the same in each character. But it also happened with only one of them in the project file.

All done in 14.1.

slowtiger wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 1:40 pm Is a key for the smart bone in frame 1 required?

no - but I think it makes a tiny change to the interpolation. My own principle is to have all timelines in all actions with linear keys that run from frame 1 to (say) frame 91 to correspond to SB rotation from (say) 0 to 90 degrees with the value at frame 1 the same as frame 0. This is in part because I (too?) am not sure about the use of frame 0 in actions - because the timeline always seems to set itself to 1 when creating an action. One day I'll find out -- maybe when someone who knows responds here? EDIT: I think I've found out: having the same SB angle twice in an action just confuses Moho -- so having a frame 1 SB rotation value that's the same as the frame 0 one is a waste of time. Maybe I should change how I do things -- 0-90... Maybe this is the subject of a UX improvement?

slowtiger wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 1:40 pm Name clash could be a hint - all characters share the exactly same seup, so bones and actions are named the same in each character. But it also happened with only one of them in the project file.

perhaps also ambiguity regarding the target layer / objects of the action? I am guessing blind ofc!

I always keyframe frame 1 inside a Smart Bone Action. This is necessary when I need to use a different default interpolation mode for the Mainline from the mode used in the first key of the Action. For example, I typically need Linear inside my Smart Bone animations, which keeps the animation for all layers inside the action in sync, but I want Smooth to be the default for the Mainline.

In the past, I would do this by copying frame 0 to frame 1 inside the Smart Bone Action, and then set frame 1 to Linear. In Moho 14.2, however, you cannot do this for the Smart Bone because it creates conflict (i.e., Moho is unsure which action to apply when the Smart Bone is in that shared position.) For some reason, my copy/paste setup was allowed in older versions of Moho, but it probably should not have been.

With Moho 14.2, I start by keyframing the last frame of a Smart Bone Action, and then I double-click on frame 1 and set the interpolation for that key to Linear. This creates a tiny offset to the rotation, but it will be in the opposite direction of the Smart Bone's secondary Action...so no more conflict. (Yay!)

Note that the above is only necessary when you want to use a different interpolation mode for the Mainline because if you change frame 0 and don't have a keyframe in the Action's frame one, the change impacts the Action's interpolation. If this isn't a concern for you, then the extra keyframe isn't needed at frame 1, but I still do it just to be safe (and probably just out of habit).

For everything controlled by the Smart Bone Action (meaning the animation,) I still copy and paste keyframe 0 to 1, and set 1 to Linear. This practice should not create any conflicts in most circumstances. If you wondering why I copy frame 0 to frame 1 for the animation part, it's because the Action's animation begins at frame 1, and copying the state of the layer frame 0 ensures I'm not beginning the animation with a slightly offset version of frame 0.

Update: I just read that you're using 14.1, and even though I said the change started in 14.2, it was probably in 14.1. Sorry, I didn't recall exactly when I started having trouble with my old setup, but it probably was 14.1.

So far, the 14.2 techniques I described have worked perfectly for all of the setups and animations created for The Little Green Dog Channel.