Moho Forum

I am back after a long time away, not just from this forum, but from many aspects of what I do. I've been traveling quite a bit during that time, mostyle in Asia, experiencing the animation world first hand. I've seen the future, you might say, and now I've returned to get back to creating dreams.

I don't want to sound like I've been totally unproductive during my time out here. (I'm still in Asia. I've spent time in China, Japan, Kore and the Philippines) I actually wrote a book during that time. It's called Animation on a Shoestring. it not only details my experiences in independent animation but sites many examples of others who are doing it without milions of dollars or major backing. It can be done. I still believe that.

I've also been doing some training videos on the different tools out there that make it possible, even for a lone artist to makes those dreams of creating their own animation come to life. There's so much out there now that the excuses just get eliminated.

So where are we in this particular world? What have we accomplished? How can we take the next step by letting the tools and technology allow those with ideas, talent and determination make dreams come to life on the screen?

I'd love to get some feedback.

artfx wrote:...many examples of others who are doing it without milions of dollars or major backing.

Welcome back!

Who are these "others"? I'd like to check out their websites and maybe buy their dvds.

Now, your book is not perfect. It seems to have been partially assembled from blog postings, and could have been made even stronger with the help of a copy editor and a development editor.

However, in keeping with the smart, bold, and above all, practical-minded "get it done!" philosophy which the book embodies, you already know that what you have to say is so important that the like-minded reader will forgive those imperfections. You've eliminated all the middlemen, and their financial cuts, in order to do your Vulcan mind meld in person.

You may consider me the ideal reader for your book, although I don't have your interest in and knowledge of Japanese anime. Your frequent references send me repeatedly to Wikipedia to bone up. Which may, in fact, be a distinctly good thing. In any event, I read it in one sitting, immediately after you invited us to purchase it. I hope to go back through it all more thoughtfully.

Another difference between us is that I don't have your talent for drawing or your ability as an animator. Few us of will. This means I don't have your luxury of testing scenes twice--first, with hand-drawn animation, and a second time, with CG. However, your book suggests that artists of all skill levels are going to want to take advantage of the very same new prosumer animation tools in order to become one-man animation studios.

At the risk of putting words in your mouth, my sense is that you feel that 3D animation, harnessed to 2D storytelling techniques through cel-shading, presents the richest potential. My biggest complaint of your book is that most readers won't be able to appreciate the point you make on page 20: "You are never stuck unless you choose to be. With cel shading you have even MORE options. Mix and match items, change colors, break a piece off and stick it on another." What you are saying is that cel shading reduces a CG image to a level of complexity amenable to tinkering by hand, and at that point, the artist is free to customize the frame to his heart's content, in a way that's inconceivable with 3D photorealism. This is particularly relevant to the animator with enough sense to loathe and dread 3D's Uncanny Valley.

Even though your book is quite dated by its references to iClone 2, I was gratified to see that you recognize it as a key (perhaps even the key) game-changer for animation production. I would be interested to see your remarks when iClone 4 appears next month.

You happen to be talking to someone who has pursued cel style in iClone more than anyone else. Let me present to you the state of the art:

http://leavesofgrass.org/animation/angry1280.gif
(30 Mb animated GIF - plays at normal speed after loading)

I am now generating cel animation directly out of iClone. The polish level isn't 100% professional, but in harmony with your "get it done!" philosophy, it may be reaching the threshold of good enough for a reasonable audience.

Don't you think it's time you joined the Reallusion forum? iCloners need to read your book, too!

I purchased and read your book out of curiosity mainly. Whilst it could do with proof reading and your habit of starting a sentence with "I mean,..." got very irritating after the 5th time there is some good information contained within. It is motivating which, I guess, is the intention. Unfortunately I hate anime, it does absolutely nothing for me, so a lot of the references were lost on me.
Overall I thought you made very good arguments and were quite inspirational. I don't think you came up with anything revolutionary or suggested anything about the way the industry is going that producers aren't realising for themselves but to have it confirmed does, atleast, motivate the reader to possibly persue these new opportunities.

Thanks human and Amigaman for those detailed reviews of my book. I think you both clearly see what I'm going for, even if the polish level didn't quite meet your expectations. Of course, going it alone, I'm not entirely surprised.

Human, your cel shading straight out of iClone shoes some real potential. Before you knock your own quality, remember how many poor quality Flash cartoons have been and are getting sold on TV the lady few years. You have nothing to worry about if you have the right story and memorable characters.

Amigaman, believe it or not anime hasn't been doing much for me lately either. There are gems, as in any medium, but they are more rare than pink diamonds. Although the influence of anime is bound to remain strong in my work, I have been moving away from trying to fir into that classification for a while. I want to do my own thing too of course.

Thanks again for taking the time to write comments and critiques. All the feedback I can get helps.

tonym wrote:

artfx wrote:...many examples of others who are doing it without milions of dollars or major backing.

Welcome back!

Who are these "others"? I'd like to check out their websites and maybe buy their dvds.

Off the top of my head I would name:

Phil Nibbelink (check spelling) - He made the indie feature Romeo and Juliet: Sealed with a Kiss. Heard he used Anime Studio for background characters and other vector work.

M Dot Strange - We Are The Strange, a movie combining stop motion, CG and anime styles. He made it into a major festival and then distributed independently through CDBaby.

Makoto Shinkai - Voices of a Distant Star, the premiere indie creator from Japan who has gone on to do much bigger things

Jeff Lew - Killer Bean, after a couple of popular shorts, he apparently completed a Killer Bean feature which is being distributed on DVD. I haven't seen it yet.

Timothy Albee - in the all 3D world, Kaze: Ghost Warrior made some big waves some time ago. I heard Albee's efforts got him a feature deal.

I don't have direct links on me, but these should all be easy to find via search.

I also mention a couple of others in my Anigen video series. Check out the trailer for that. It also talks about 2D, 3D and vector using Anime Studio, along with giving some examples of different ways to make your own project happen.

I'd love to get feedback on that as well...

Thanks again

There's a couple I forgot to add...

Yasuhiro Yoshiura who independently created Pale Cocoon which is a very high quality production. He did one or two others before this as well.

Frogman I don't remember his real Japanese name, but he created a Flash cartoon called Sugai Kun to Kazoku Ishi (basically Sugai and the Family Stone, based on the 70's funk band) and supposedly made a lot of money selling his indie DVD and jump started a career doing big name titles.

tonym wrote:

artfx wrote:...many examples of others who are doing it without milions of dollars or major backing.

Welcome back!

Who are these "others"? I'd like to check out their websites and maybe buy their dvds.

"Big Buck Bunny" @ http://www.blender.org. And the Blender Foundation is currently working on "Project Durian.

Welcome Back.
alot of good info in this Thread. thanks

Omen River

Gnaws wrote:
"Big Buck Bunny" @ http://www.blender.org. And the Blender Foundation is currently working on "Project Durian.

I didn't even know about that one. I have seen that character many times before though. Blender has been making some real strides in the 3D world for quite some time. I may have to look into more seriously one day soon.

I am also struggling with Blender and learning ASP.