Moho Forum

Is it just me, or the freehand tool in ASP6 is much improved over the one n ASP5.6?
I use a Tablet, and drawing IN ASP6 feels so natural that it probaby means I can drop the draw-on-an-externa-tool-then-trace-it in ASP step.

Is it possible to hide the control points while using the freehand tool?
No big deal, but it would be really cool if we had an option to hide them in the freehand tool.

Cheers.

I know you can now toggle the construction curves checkbox in the lower right hand corner of the drawing window if that helps?
Lets you see what you've drawn without the control points at least...

I also wanna see what you've drawn in AS6

Oh boy. This is exciting.

I was just saying that it would be really helpfull to have a checkbox where I could hide the control-points (not tyhe controls like bones, etc).

I definitely feel that the new freehand tool is better than the previous one.
If the control points were not visible, it would feel even more natural.

If one has a cintiq, drawing directly on the screen would feel more natural without seeing the control points, wouldn't it?

BTW: I loved the "Sketchy" script. Amazing.

The problem with not showing control points is how that tool works. It isn't "drawing shapes" until you stop drawing. the shape is created at the end of the stroke. The only stroke visible up to that point are the creation of the points.

There is no "shape" until you stop drawing. It is the shape that defines the thickness and color etc of the free hand drawn vectors. It is the same as when you draw vectors with the add point tool. There is no shape, fill or color until you actually create one either by connecting the last point with auto shape checked or by using the create shape tool.

In order to turn off control points AND have visual feed back some type of "simulation" of the shape would have to be added to AS. Something entirely new and "alien" to the software. Something that would fake what the final shape would look like after you stop drawing.

-------------------------------

Having said that it would be possible to modify the tool so you could have construction curves off and have a simple screen representation of the pen tool drawing path. There is a "draw" feature in the scripting that can "fake" lines and curves on screen in any color. So the points won't show but the path would. When you stop drawing construction curves are off so you just see the path shape. It wouldn't have thickness (the lines would probably be a single thickness) but it probably could use the current color set in the style palette. It might be possible to CHANGE the width of the "interface drawn" line based on pen pressure but I don't know that for certain.

(also the lines might not be "smooth". I think the interface drawing would be short "connected" straight lines. Not 100% certain on that.)

Would this be enough?

-vern

that'd be cool

heyvern wrote:There is no "shape" until you stop drawing. It is the shape that defines the thickness and color etc of the free hand drawn vectors.

That's right - the shape doesn't really exist until mouse up. In order to do things like taper the ends of the curve, the software needs to know when the curve ends.

heyvern wrote:In order to turn off control points AND have visual feed back some type of "simulation" of the shape would have to be added to AS.

That's true as well. And fortunately there is such a thing. Try turning off the "Auto-weld" option for the Freehand tool and you'll see exactly such a simulation. When auto-weld is on, we need to draw the little welding "hint" circles, so the simulation isn't quite possible.

Lost Marble wrote:

heyvern wrote: That's true as well. And fortunately there is such a thing. Try turning off the "Auto-weld" option for the Freehand tool and you'll see exactly such a simulation. When auto-weld is on, we need to draw the little welding "hint" circles, so the simulation isn't quite possible.

Any chance of making AS able to import Manga Studio vectors? That would be a huge thing to have ( I see AS 6 does Illustrator import better - need to check that out!!)

I'd love to use AS more for its great IK but the one thing that has kept me going back to Flash for production work is the time it takes in AS to create the art - it has to be 'constructed' - that is, traced, from an imported image - and that is SLOW-( as mentioned elsewhere, current Illustrator imports create too many points)- most animation is done by artists, not technicians, - being able to draw (and sketch) accurately and fluently with a tablet or a Cintiq in an animation program is absolutely critical nowadays.

I'm sure if AS had the drawing tools that Illustrator or Toonboom has, at the price it is, it would find a huge market among freelance artists who can't/don't want to pay top pro prices.

my 3 cents worth
Mac

Mac

if AS had the drawing tools that Illustrator or Toonboom has

Please not. Right now I fight with Illustrator again, and for drawing it is a nightmare. AS is much more intuitively for free-from drawing with vectors. However, if I have to construct something very precisely and rectangular, I'll mostly do it directly in Illustrator or Flash.

Any chance of making AS able to import Manga Studio vectors?

We need a "sticky" post about AS curves and all those other "curves". Just point people to it. New users can read it. I have a feeling the whole topic will be coming up again with fresh new faces. I think I will hunt down Mike's great explanation of AS curves and put it in a new sticky post.

---

AS is great because the point curves behave "differently" from everything else. It's like Samson's hair. Samson was a great guy, powerful fighter. Incredible strength, but a lot of people wanted him to get a hair cut. Thought it made him look unkempt. But without his hair he wasn't strong anymore... Look stylish? Or be strong?

AS curves are like... uh... Samson's hair... That was a stretch. I'll work on a better analogy later.

-vern

[quote="heyvern
We need a "sticky" post about AS curves
-vern[/quote]

Yeh - I read all them - meanwhile, I still have deadlines to meet!

AS is great ---

why are there several threads here about how little AS is appreciated, then?

The reality is, unfortunately, that AS needs the drawing tools to appeal to a wider community - not the specialists here - sorry guys! This is a nice piece of software - you ought not to be trying to keep it all to yourselves!

Anyways - Let's hope the Creator listens to other voices.

M

macaye wrote:The reality is, unfortunately, that AS needs the drawing tools to appeal to a wider community - not the specialists here - sorry guys! This is a nice piece of software - you ought not to be trying to keep it all to yourselves!

Anyways - Let's hope the Creator listens to other voices.

From this thread, take a look of what the Creator says about:

Lost Marble wrote:My second point is about standard interfaces and workflows. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm not necessarily a big fan of standard ways of doing things. As an example, I've always hated the way Illustrator and other vector apps work, so when you see differences in Anime Studio, they're intentional. It's up to you if that works for you or not.

My advice is you give a chance to AS drawing tools. I'm pretty sure you will understand why they are this way and why are so cool for drawing and animate. The greatness of AS is just how different is from some paradigms.

From this thread, take a look of what the Creator says about:

Lost Marble wrote:I've always hated the way Illustrator and other vector apps work

Yeh, I did read that, too, but, it doesn't change the essential point - (I have spent an awful lot of time reading this forum, and getting to grips with ASP, and using it to produce commercial work) -- I (and thousands of other illustrators apparently) can draw on screen, fast, and accurately in Illustrator and Flash, Toonboom, other apps, etc, and have the vector paths not only reflect our line stroke closely, but also have those strokes constructed with efficient, economical, placement of points. The whole evolution of graphic software is in the direction of user-friendliness, and away from technical hurdles placed between creator and creation - I'm sure there isn't a programmer (who wants to sell his app to artists) who would dissent from this basic point, whatever approach to it they choose to take.

My advice is you give a chance to AS drawing tools.

I have used them all a lot for a year or so - but the only tool that's really relevant to the point I'm making is the pencil tool, and how well it works with the pressure sensitivity of a tablet. If there are any settings you use to make it work as accurately as Illustrator's brush tool than I would love you to tell me so I can fit ASP into my pipeliine.

Even if ASP could import accurately from Illustrator that, in itself, would be a very useful alternative.

Or maybe ASP 6 has improved this a lot?

Ta

Mac

Maybe I'm not understanding things, but are we talking about two different topics? (Or maybe three)

1. One point is having a tool which works like an artist's brush in building a shape, as is done in some other packages.

2. The other main point is that the architecture of AS uses representation of subject matter differently than some other apps. I think we understand that AS uses a different mathematical approach, or programming structure, to store the animators shapes. As all such decisions are a form of "engineering trade off", we understand how this approach brings several advantages as well.

But aren't the concepts of Tool and internal representation fundamentally different concepts. Or, might we have our cake and eat it too?

Can't a tool be built for AS which accepts "brush strokes" and converts those strokes into evolving shapes? Sure, there would be some crazy math, but that would either be for a LUA programmer, or some additional additional internal transformation which could be exposed to the LUA scripting.

Maybe we can't get, or don't want or need, the same tool as in Illustrator or Flash. And maybe a direct import of their data files is not feasable.

But it should be possible on some level, with some degree of fidelity towards the expectations of an artist, to develop a brush tool which with each stroke builds a shape. Maybe the math involved would be too much for real time feel. But maybe the brush need not act "perfectly" in line with the same as the expectation as in Flash, or when using a physical brush away from your computer. Obviously the artists using these computer based tools are already able to handle the differences between the physics of the world and cyberspace. {I need to calm down}

There have got to be algorythms already "out there" which can transform one representation of geographic polygons bounded by one mathematical description of vectors into another form of vector description. I don't know where it would be on the net, or what the right buzzwords are to search for. That stuff has never been part of my "rice bowl". I would think an investment in a few pints of beer near the right engineering school might pay off handsomely in this regard.

Maybe getting a brush tool and some form of vector art import functionality could be part of the same core math improvement.

Remember, one of the great features of AS is people being able to work the way they want to. That the tools are modifiable and extensible.

Say that Shape is the current shape
And NewShape is a shape defined by a new stroke with the Brush

Shape.AssimilateShape(NewShape)

would be the new routine called after each brush stroke, which assimilates the polygon (or whatever) described by the brush stoke
into the current shape.

Just an idea, I could be way off in understanding the topic matter and AS internals in particular.