SkulptSketch

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:56 pm

Wow, that's pretty awful. Okay, I can't figure out what it should be called and it isn't even my original idea, but I'd like to talk about a drawing process here that doesn't appear to fit any traditional approach to creating images I've ever seen or heard of.

If you look at the efrontier tutorial:

http://www.e-frontier.com/article/artic ... 281/1/812/

by Professor Nick Nagel you'll see what I'm talking about. He almost casually tosses away the concept in a sentence where he describes the skulpting as follows:

"I like to start out by adding just a few points to begin with and get a rough shape.

Then I proceed to massage the shape into the form I need by adding points and translating them as needed using the add and translate tools respectively."

Now all you traditional artists will love the fact that he works from a pencil sketch but I've tried this technique and it works just fine without almost any preliminary sketch (although sometimes I work from looking at images on my other monitor). I don't actually think you need a sketch because the process is indeed more skulpting than drawing, and just like a skulptor you may or may not need to sketch out your ideas first but rather work with the raw "clay" (here the vector points) while you look at your model (a sketch or other image you have anywhere).

I find it rather startling this process works so well -- I can just push a vector point around and suddenly the shape starts to appear and I know when it's right. I can't do this with a pencil, I can't even do this using the computer and a bitmapped program (like Photoshop). It works best when the image is "cartoonish" because you are defining outlines, but I think in the hands of someone far more talented than I am it would work even if you are going for a very realistic look.

I've read dozens of books on vector drawing and never even seen this mentioned before. Those books (mostly on Adobe Illustrator) just have the person using "traditional" techniques translated to the computer -- moving the mouse around like a brush or pencil and seldom even modifying a vector point when placed. Maybe it's out there somewhere other than Nick's article, but I haven't ever come across it, nor do I think he emphasizes just how amazing this process is. I haven't tried this in AI because I'm more interested in animation right now, but I suspect it will work just as well there.

Note: you traditional artists can ignore this. You already have talents I'll never have and ways of working that do it for you. But for beginners I'd recommend at least trying this approach. For me it was revoluntionary.

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:53 pm

You can see also this technique from Phillipe Cizarre (p6r)

viewtopic.php?t=9300&highlight=learn+draw
viewtopic.php?t=8873&highlight=learn+draw

Good point mkelley

-G

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:42 pm

Hmmmm -- I really like the approach this guy is taking, but I can't find any place he published the second book (which would probably be a lot more interesting to me). He definitely touches on the "skulpting" aspects, as well as a lot more.

Does anyone have any idea if he's still around here? Or where his second book (if he ever managed to finish it) would be?

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:05 pm

Ah, nevermind, I found it (and him -- he emailed me almost instantly. I wonder what time it is in France?)

I'll probably buy it for a couple of reasons -- like to support the guy, and it's possible it will have a tip or two I might have missed (I kind of doubt it based on the sample pages but I'm always willing to admit I don't know things :>).

His approach is not really the skulpt/sketch but more of a layers thing.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:40 am

I find it rather startling this process works so well -- I can just push a vector point around and suddenly the shape starts to appear and I know when it's right.

I have the same experience. This is also a part of that "computer creativity" discussion going on. There are still people who feel that pushing around points in a vector application is not drawing. To each their own I suppose.

-vern

mkelley · Post by **mkelley** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:04 am

Vern,

This is a good place to take the opportunity to thank you. Some other thread someone was talking about Adobe Illustrator and you encouraged them to use AS for drawing and I was either involved in that thread or just was reading it but in any case it inspired me to keep at it and I now feel AS is just so much better (at least for creating vector art to animate) than using AI.

It's very exhilerating for me (remember: I have zero talent) to be able to create almost any cartoon image quickly and efficiently. I'm did an animation today where I needed a railway station, and working from an old photograph I was able to put something together in about five minutes that works extraordinarily well for my purposes -- we're not talking photo real but enough for a background to a cartoon.

Anyway, thanks again -- and any beginner reading this should give the drawing tools in AS a try because they, along with this skulpt/sketch concept can really be very very powerful.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:48 am

Thanks for the comments! I really appreciate it. I am happy if I help anyone learn from my own experiences.

-vern

funksmaname · Post by **funksmaname** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:02 am

this is exactly how i work - roughing the volume(ish) and then adding/moving points aroudn the line... and AS is brilliant at this - especially compared to Illustrator. This is why I've always said people should learn the drawing tools in AS (especially if they have less traditional drawing skills, but have a good 'minds eye') - and the reason why i prefer to use computers to paper - i almost completely rely on 'sculpting' drawings now so paper frustrates me...especially when i reach for the undo button lol

I'm not a charicaturist, but thats how i did my LOST/24 characters - i quickly got a basic shape of everything down in a frenzy, then spent days here and there tweaking points around and moving them... I started those, as i often do, with NO sketches (even though I would say I 'can' draw)

p.s. i know have a little CINTIQ12WX... its awesome! and makes photoshop so much better than paper - and I find i can be inspired by trying stuff that i cant do on paper, like using a black canvas and drawing with a super bright pink or blue - things just pop off the page. I still brush it with my hand when i turn over the pen and erase though lol - makes me laugh every time.

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:43 pm

I still brush it with my hand when i turn over the pen and erase though lol - makes me laugh every time.

Holy cow! I do that too with my wacom pad sometimes! Old habits.

-vern