Moho Forum

dm wrote:Out of curiosity, what are you (Ian7) bringing to this project?

Just a concept? (which you already gave away).

Every producer or director that I have ever worked with, at least has some connections and sales potential. Perhaps some of us altruistic fairies have nothing better to do than make your dreams come true-but so far I'm not seeing that happening.

What did I give away exactly? And why are you worked up over my question?

tonym wrote:I neglected to mention background art. You should budget for that, too.

Also, not everyone checks the 'Animation Jobs' subforum regularly. Getting a bunch of replies could take a while.

Lastly, since you know how to make websites, you might consider setting up a website or blog as soon as you can - to attract people to work on your project, to display your commitment to getting it done, to answer questions and so forth.

Thank you for your continued advice.

- Im gonna lock in the writer first to get the script for the first 2 episodes 100% competed
- In the meantime, get 1 male and 1 female character designed so we have a theme that everyone likes.
- I love the website idea, that would make everyone take it more serious.

Then, figure out animation with a budget, I'm also learning AS, so hopefully, I'll know more by then.

what you've 'given away':

marketing scheme: via internet w/ advertising

The first episode, for example, is going to be a 2 part episode with a big financial/political issue with China.

Not that that means much, but it's really all you've got for now anyway, isn't it?

What makes you think I'm worked up over your question? If you read through other 'Animation Jobs' posts, you might notice a common theme. Your 'need 6' indicates that you want an idea of how to generate revenue. You're nothing new around here.

Seriously, what do you have to offer that is of some value to the people you're asking to do the work to make your dream come true? Everyone else is trying to point that out as well.

By the way, South Park is done in Maya. I wonder at what you mean by a 'cleaner' animation style. Actually, I don't really care. You'll figure it out, or you won't. Good luck-hopefully you'll succeed.

dm wrote:what you've 'given away':
marketing scheme: via internet w/ advertising

So all the idiots here didn’t know that money can be made by advertising on the internet? Well, I guess I helped you

I said that's my current field, so I would know a couple more things than the average person, but i don’t see how that’s still a secret.

The first episode, for example, is going to be a 2 part episode with a big financial/political issue with China.

Not that that means much, but it's really all you've got for now anyway, isn't it?

Oh wow, that’s too much information I gave away, I think someone will steal my entire show with that. First, that doesn’t mean anything. Second, ideas are a dime a dozen, it's what you do with them that counts. Third, if you think that one line qualifies as a show, then you should be worried.

What makes you think I'm worked up over your question? If you read through other 'Animation Jobs' posts, you might notice a common theme. Your 'need 6' indicates that you want an idea of how to generate revenue. You're nothing new around here.

I didn’t ask or needed any ideas, but I also didn’t claim that I had the magic answer either, I was very honest with what I knew and didn’t know.

Seriously, what do you have to offer that is of some value to the people you're asking to do the work to make your dream come true? Everyone else is trying to point that out as well.

The first episode first draft script is 70% done then will be passed on to 2 writers to edit (will pick the best one, and that won’t free either). The characters are all mapped out. The audio person is on board. If the project is completed, I would be able to launch a website for it and start marketing. That’s the value I’m adding, and I don’t need your approval on it.

By the way, South Park is done in Maya. I wonder at what you mean by a 'cleaner' animation style. Actually, I don't really care. You'll figure it out, or you won't. Good luck-hopefully you'll succeed.

Cleaner in the character movement, walking and body parts, the rest of their style is ok with me. They use Maya because that was one of the few programs around when they started more than a decade ago. Just because you use Maya, doesn’t mean your work has to be clean. I’m sure you can make a matchstick figure in Maya as well.

In general, I get your frustration with me asking for FREE work. I was weary of that myself in the beginning so I added all the disclaimers I could and didn’t label this as a job either. Yes this is a “job section” but I didn’t see anywhere else more appropriate to put it.
You have a right not to like what I proposed, but you cannot speak for everyone who might be learning the software and would like to approach it in a different way. I didn’t lie or deceive or promise anything.

All the constructive criticism I got so far from the other members was respectful and very helpful. If you read what others said it’s basically the “You won’t get anywhere with this” but I should “try this or that approach instead”, which was genuine and much appreciated. Your criticism on the other hand offered nothing!

Ian7 wrote: - Im gonna lock in the writer first to get the script for the first 2 episodes 100% competed
- In the meantime, get 1 male and 1 female character designed so we have a theme that everyone likes.
- I love the website idea, that would make everyone take it more serious.

Then, figure out animation with a budget, I'm also learning AS, so hopefully, I'll know more by then.

Learning ASP is an excellent idea. Such knowledge will allow you to communicate more precisely with your animators.

Also, even if you suck at art, you may not suck at animating a previously-designed and already-rigged character. You may not ever be able to do a decent walk cycle, but you can definitely do some stuff.

Believe it or not, you can learn to do lip sync.

One more thing. Expect to be criticized here for not paying for animation or for paying too little. Nonetheless, please try to refrain from 'debating' with any posters, as you'll probably want to keep posting to this thread for several months, and it'll be more enjoyable to read (for you, me, everyone) if it's not clogged with your efforts to defend yourself.

Good luck! Keep us updated with your progress, and post in the other forums if you have any trouble with the tutorials.

Thanks, I already started playing with the software and got a face with mouth switch layers for lip syncing, it's actually not bad at all. I'll move on to bones ones i finish this long list of tutorials about the basic stuff.

The next project I post will be paid I promise.

I think I will just ask for the male and female character designs next once I know what to ask for exactly.

Here is a quickie animatiion of a walk cycle using an Odd Job Jack character:
Ass Scratcher.

Here is a process you might like to follow. I've written about this process elsewhere, but you could try this out for size. It is the result of some research I've been doing on your behalf. The software I used was Flash 8, Xara Xtreme and Anime Studio 5.6. Flash MX2004 would work fine, as would some drawing program other than Xara which can load .ai Illustrator files and save 24-bit png with alpha (32 bit). I've heard good things about Gimp, for instance, a freeware drawing program, but I've never used it.

If you can't draw, use freely-available assets with no royalty problems.
From this link: http://www.oddjobjack.com/freejack.php?sec=2 , you can download professionally-produced characters, props and backgrounds for free, which you can use without restriction. As always, there's a catch -- you will need a version of Flash to use them. Luckily, Flash MX2004 or later is fine. You should be able to get hold of a copy on eBay for next to nothing. (Just don't expect to be able to use it for upgrades or anything if you buy it this way).

Here's what I did -- it's a process you should be able to use fairly efficiently.

0) The Odd Job Jack download contains an 'images' folder identifying characters, props etc.
1) Select some character that you need.
2) Load the .fla file into Flash.
3) Save it as an .ai file, say, test.ai, and close Flash.
3a) Open Xara.
4) Load test.ai into Xara.
4a) Save this image as a .png file (for reference), e.g. body.png
5) Each section of the .ai file (head, torso, hands etc.) is grouped
6) Make a new layer, say 'head'
7) Click on the character's head and press CTRL-X
8 ) Go to the 'head' layer, SHIFT-CTRL-V to paste in place
9) Repeat steps 6-8 until all major elements are distributed to layers
10) Turn off visibility for all layers
11) Turn visibility on for one layer, then export it as a png file. I export all images at double screen resolution (192 pixels to the inch), so I can allow for close-ups
12) Once all this is done, close down Xara and open Anime Studio.
13) Load body.png as a reference.
14) Load in each body part and use body.png layer for positioning
15) Rig character with bones and start animating!

You will need to learn other things, like using switch layers for mouths, hands and eyes, but this is plenty to be getting on with! Good luck!

Oh wow thank you, this is gonna be useful on so many levels.

This is kina where I'm at so far with my first character (pretty plain looking but I'm trying to see how I can add more to his face especially)

- I used switches for mouth layers, only a couple so far
- Actions and morphing for eye movement
- Got some bones on him that seem to move fine
- And I went really easy with the walk cycle, he's just gonna move his feet up and down real quick, no legs movement, i'll upload a video once I have something better to show

Can send you the anme file containing the walk cycle and character, if you want. You can have a look at the idiosyncratic way I rig characters!

Yes please, I sent you a pm with my email.

It would be nice to follow a thought out rig, thank you.

Just a small suggestion.

If you want people to take you seriously, try not to use weird slang spellings.

"Kina?" I'm assuming you mean "kinda," which in itself, is a slang spelling for "kind of."
Take the time to at least put the 'd' in it. Txtspk is the fastest way to lose people's interest, as they think you are either too immature or too illiterate to be professional...

As for your project, your writers will only be able to do so much with what you give them. From what you've described so far, you have a fair foundation, but you need to solidify it more by providing an outline-form breakdown of your basic premise - Full descriptions of your characters, along with a detailed breakdown of their position within your series. Ex. - These 3 individuals believe that Government is essentially a bunch of idiotic "yes men," and they try to expose the lack of depth and accountability at every opportunity." This will give your writers an underlying motivation for the scenes and dialogue they will write.

The same type of clear breakdown needs to be done for your proposed 2-parter with China. As for any good storyline, you need a clear introduction, middle, and end. This will give your writers specific signposts to aim the action for, with whatever "decorative" scenes included still aiming for a specific goal.

While a dedicated website is a good idea, it will also involve more work in order to set it up and maintain it. To start, you may want to "keep it simple" by creating a dedicated YouTube, Facebook, or Twitter page/group. Much less complicated, meaning you will be able to update it easier, which *hopefully* means you will update it more often. To get interest and hopefully financial backing for your project, you will need to provide CONSTANT new content to keep people interested and excited about it. Especially if you are talking months, and especially if you are working on it "part time."

Best of success to you.