Mouth switches for a turning face

capricorn33 · Post by **capricorn33** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:14 pm

I've been experimenting with the scale-rotating technique, the invention of muuvist and D.K., recently discussed here in this forum.
You can see my work in progress in the 'share your work'-forum.

The scale-rotate technique make simple headturns swift and easy to do... but it of course comes at a cost...
For example, one of my character's mouth got a very flat look when it was only scaled and stretched (which is the very point of scale-rotating)...

So I had to find some solution there. Couldn't find any way to do it within the scale-rotating limits, had to go to switch layers.

And I found that it was easier than I had thought to get good, turning mouths for lipsync-action.

BTW, I'm quite sure this isn't anything new to those of you who have worked a longer time with AS - but it is a great discovery to me, a half-newbie!

From the shapes-layout on top in the picture it's easy to mold the other mouthshapes below, same mouth from different angles... which make nice turning, lip-synced movements when used with normal switching. (...it's just a case of simply hiding shapes behind eachother...)

And here is a an attempt to make my character's mouth look like I want it to then, in animation.

turning, lip-synced mouth built in switches turning with scale-rotated face

(I'll put up the anme-file too, as soon as I can.)

cheers
cap

jahnocli · Post by **jahnocli** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:18 pm

wow -- that's really good...

DK · Post by DK » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:33 am

Hi Cap. Did you try splitting the mouth switch layer in to 2 halves? I found that you had more control on the way the mouth was distorted with scale rotate this way. For a complete mouth profile just include a seperate profile mouth set inside your switch layer.

viewtopic.php?t=8540&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

(see my second post in the thread)

Cheers
D.K

capricorn33 · Post by **capricorn33** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:39 am

DK wrote:Hi Cap. Did you try splitting the mouth switch layer in to 2 halves? I found that you had more control on the way the mouth was distorted with scale rotate this way. For a complete mouth profile just include a seperate profile mouth set inside your switch layer.
D.K

Hi D.K,

Yes sure, I did that. I read your posts thoroughly.

And for all my examples in my "coney-thread" I have also used split mouths in exactly this fashion. Like this one. It works very well, but only to a degree.

Because if you only take the mouthshape from upfront and scale it (in two different scaling halves) it still looks flat when turned 3/4. There's no depth inside the mouth.

For example;
...with the split mouths-technique you can't make a jaw with overbite turn convincingly...
...You can't have teeth moving in perspective inside a wide open mouth...

My simple discovery (and of course it's not a new one, but I'm thrilled because I'm a newbie!) was that if you build the base for the mouthshapes as I did here in my example and sort the different shapes inside that base model carefully and then hide those shapes behind eachother just moving the existing points you can get all that 3D-look built into the switches.

And a mouth can go from L-shape to E-shape WHILE TURNING from, say, profile to 3/4 or from 3/4 to front.

This of course means that I have to use mixed techniques, scale-rotate AND traditional mouth switch. A little more work, perhaps

The "split mouth" is good though, and faster, if you HAVE a mouth that IS flat to begin with

(I will make the anme.file available here a soon as putfile.com clears up their mess and get their upload page working.

)

cheers
cap

Genete · Post by **Genete** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:03 pm

(I will make the anme.file available here a soon as putfile.com clears up their mess and get their upload page working. )

Is Putfile.com still messed up?

Thanks for share cap!

-G

DK · Post by DK » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:16 pm

Nice technique Cap. Though, there is still a problem with all of these workarounds as a perfect mouth profile should really form a hollowed out section in the head when in the open position. Getting a switch layer to interact with the head profile in such a way could be very tricky.

D.K

capricorn33 · Post by **capricorn33** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:03 pm

Hi again,
and thanks Genete and DK for the interest.

Here is the long since promised anme-file, then.

mum_pointmouth.anme

Sorry about the delay.
Putfile.com (or more correctly pustuff.com) was down during the weekend and now I haven't been around computers myself for the last three days...

D.K. wrote: Nice technique Cap. Though, there is still a problem with all of these workarounds as a perfect mouth profile should really form a hollowed out section in the head when in the open position.

Yes of course... my "mum"-character's mouth in this example is just a black hole... but you can of course put the tongue and teeth and all the rest of the inside of the mouth there also and have it rotating correctly in relation to the rest of the head, if you want to. AND have the hollowed out effect in profile, too.

Just to show the point I very quickly put this one together.
(please don't comment on the quality of the turn - because it's crap

, I just try to show the princple of my thought here... and sorry about that extra black line around the mouth area... didn't bother to clean it up...)

view it in video on putfile...
or dowload anme-file
3D_mouthtest.anme

Of course there are serious limitations to this switch-while-turning-technique...

You are totally depending on the number of mouth sets you've created...

- A switch set with mouthshapes for let's say front - 3/4 - profile
works well in those three positions (of course)

- When the head is turning from one position to the next you can use only ONE transition from one mouthshape to another...
Which means that the turns from one headposition to the next must be quite fast.

- And of course you need different switches for the left-to-center postions and for the right-to-center positions.

These are the drawbacks compared to the scale-rotate and mouthsplit technique... where you can use ALL different angles of the head, almost all the way from left profile to right profile.

You maybe also could say that what i'm really up to here is discovering the possiblities of point animating...

cheers
cap

heyvern · Post by **heyvern** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:24 pm

To add to your technique...

I just started to use shape ordering for switch layer phonemes!

viewtopic.php?t=8783

It works great. You could have the tongue shape "over" the teeth on one layer, and stick it back in on the others. Or you can have the upper teeth shape cover the lower lip for the "FV". It isn't a smooth transition but it does the job when it goes by pretty fast.

You can change shape order as much as you want for switch layers. This is very cool.

-vern

JimmyC · Post by **JimmyC** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:26 am

Capricorn. I can't download any of your anime files. I get an error that says the file has been deleted or never existed in the first place.

I would really like to see how it is done for future reference, although I am not really up to that stage yet

I am still working my way through the excellent tutes that come with the software.

Thanks

capricorn33 · Post by **capricorn33** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:41 am

Hi, JimmyC

I usually upload my anme-files to putstuff.com
The "problem" with this site is that they delete the uploaded files after a month, if nobody has downloaded them for that period of time...

So you'll just have to hurry if you want to catch my files...

I'll upload these anmefiles from this thread again as soon as I can. (There is some site maintenance going on at pustuff right now, site temporarily closed)

Check again in a couple of days.

JimmyC · Post by **JimmyC** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:02 am

Thanks cap, I'll keep checking. Best Wishes