Delete 1 point, many points vanish

[Hoptoad]

Sometimes while I'm subtracting a point from a shape, something weird happens...

Note: it only happens when I have 2 or more shapes that share some points.

When I delete a point, a bunch of connected but UNSELECTED points also vanish and the shape is deleted. This doesn't happen super-often, but it's not rare either.

Why does it happen? And, more importantly, is there something I can do to keep it from happening?

Thanks.

[hayasidist]

how are selecting and deleting the points?

(e.g. delete segment has a "smart" option which does as you describe if it thinks you want to delete a chain of connected segments - override this "smart trim" with alt-click -- but that's probably not what you're doing...)

[Hoptoad]

Hi, hayasidist. I'm a big fan of your scripts.

I'm selecting the points the usual way: the Select Points tool and the Transform Points tool -- nothing unusual -- and I delete by pressing the Delete key.

I found a .moho file with a bad point and uploaded it on a file hosting website and attached a link. In the file, I indicated the bad point with a blue arrow. If I delete that specific point, the shape deletes.

This is pretty close to problem I mentioned in the OP, but not nearly as bad. Sometimes there are several bad points in a row, and if I delete any single one of them, they all vanish and the shape is deleted. I can't find an example file showing this worse behavior, though. Hopefully the example file with the 1 bad point will shed some light on the mystery.

https://limewire.com/d/szcAe#NSAaqx0ocG

Note: The .moho file is automatically deleted in 3 days.

[synthsin75]

I've never seen unselected POINTS get deleted while deleting a single point. Like Paul said, this can happen with the delete edge tool (unless you hold alt). In your file, deleting that point kills the shape because that point is crucial in defining that shape. When you delete a welded point, Moho cannot guess which shape you want to keep, so it likely just keeps the shape on the earliest or latest line segments created. If you break those shapes, by deleting a segment with the delete edge tool (holding alt), you can then delete the point without losing the shape. You've told Moho you want to keep both as separate shapes.

[hayasidist]

glad you like the scripts!

and as Wes has remarked, I don't think I've seen a whole chain of points being deleted "uncommanded" - doesn't mean it can't happen, just that I don't recall seeing it.

About that "bad" point in the file you uploaded -- if you take a careful look at the two halves to the jacket, you'll see that the screen left side has one more shape than the screen right side. (use the select shape tool - make sure checker selection is off)

click the branch that comes off the outer path at the "rogue" point. RHS: Shape S3 2 is selected; LHS: shape S9 is selected -- but S9 includes the whole outer path as well.

now click on the main filled area: RHS: Shape S2, LHS: S7. Both fill / stroke.

now delete the questionable points - RHS: S2 is deleted; LHS: S7 is deleted- but the LHS still has S9 (so it looks as though you only lost the fill).

So why does deleting a point somewhere along the closed path of a shape cause the shape to be deleted? A lot of the time, it doesn't. e.g. use the LM_Shape tool - draw a circle. delete a point, add a few... delete some more ... the shape's fill / stroke are preserved even though you can get to a situation where none of the original points remain. But if you've made a branch - i.e. there's a point that has multiple curves through it - and you delete the branched point, Moho doesn't figure out how to keep the "original" filled shape intact - and the Shape gets deleted (even though the path is correctly changed).

[Hoptoad]

...If you break those shapes, by deleting a segment with the delete edge tool (holding alt), you can then delete the point without losing the shape. You've told Moho you want to keep both as separate shapes.

Ah, that's good to know. Thanks!

I searched through my Time Machine back-up files, trying to find the iteration of the character that had the bigger multi-point problem mentioned in the OP, but I can't locate the iteration. I had assumed the problem was not unknown by others, but I guess not. I think it usually happens when I'm tinkering with something complicated -- like clothes with wrinkles, for example -- and decide to remove a point to simplify the shape. But it's never a serious problem, and is easily fixed by remaking the shape with new points.

Oh well. I'll assume it's my fault somehow, because that's usually the case. Moho is extremely well-made and reliable, after all.

BUT if it happens again, by golly, I'll be sure to save the file for analysis (unless I forget to do so, which is a possibility).

Thanks for the help, guys!

[Hoptoad]

About that "bad" point in the file you uploaded -- if you take a careful look at the two halves to the jacket...

Ah! Thank you for explaining!
I often add wrinkles to clothes after the basic shape is made, where each wrinkle is a stroke welded to the main shape. But then I change my mind and want them gone. It'll save me a little time knowing how to get rid of those additional strokes without deleted the fill.

The "Connect and Create" button is awesome! I should probably use it less, ha ha.

[hayasidist]

Ah! Thank you for explaining!
I often add wrinkles to clothes after the basic shape is made, where each wrinkle is a stroke welded to the main shape. But then I change my mind and want them gone. It'll save me a little time knowing how to get rid of those additional strokes without deleted the fill.

I had once thought that it was was expedient to create fill/stroke shapes where I'd have branches off branches off... but I kept (re) discovering that Moho would / could not fill because the complexity of the underlying mesh. So now I've taken to keeping the wrinkles etc as one or more separate (stroke only) shapes (same layer). Not attached to the "outline", but physically close so "you can't see the join". (I sometimes catch myself failing to do this though!)