Why no bezier handles in Debut?

[Lebostein]

I think bezier handles are a basic thing in vector graphics. I don't know why Anime Studio introduces such fundamental things after 15 years of development. But the Debut version has a problem now: You can control all parameters of a spline no longer! Before, a curve or a shape was build of points with a) a position and b) a curvature. Both parameters could be set with Debut. Now, with Moho, there are additional parameters (mathematical weights) of a point. With Moho Debut it is not allowed to edit these parameters. But while free hand drawing or with the new SVG importer Moho Debut deals with that new parameters to reduce the points. But this leads to problems if I want to edit these shapes! Please, allow bezier handles in Debut or return to the old behaviour in Debut.

[synthsin75]

So...you'd rather have crappy freehand and SVG import just because you can't edit bezier handles?

[Lebostein]

Let me illustrate the problem:

1. I draw some lines, for example with the blob brush:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/134 ... o_bez1.png

2. Now I move some points. Because of the new bezier formulation you can get strange and unintentional bulgs or dents:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/134 ... o_bez2.png

3. With Moho Debut 12 it is impossible to fix such dents because you have no access to all parameters which describe the shape!! This is a huge problem in my eyes. Adding some new points don't fix the problem, it increases the problem. You get no smooth rounded shape:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/134 ... o_bez4.png

I miss an "auto-smooth" button (like in Inkscape) to remove the fixed bezier handle parameters from points.

[synthsin75]

You should still be able to hit ctrl+M to restore any selected point(s) to smooth curvature, like default AS11 points.

[Víctor Paredes]

We discussed about this with Mike and the rest of the team during the development of Moho 12.
Bezier handles manipulation is a Pro feature, but this feature also improved the way Freehand, Blob brush and Paint bucket tools work.
So, in this scenario, we had two options:

- Keep Debut's drawing tools just in the way they worked in version 11
- Improve the drawing tools in Debut, even when the user doesn't have access to the bezier handles

We decided to add these improvements to Debut, because drawing is easier and cleaner with them.
Now, If the user wants to edit the curve, there are options to do it, as Wes pointed:
- Hit Ctrl+M or Ctr+P will smooth or peak the curvature
- Using the Curvature tool, you can reduce the curvature to zero and then increase it
- Using the Curvature tool, you can press the Peak or Smooth button

All this options will transform the selected points into "Anime Studio 11 curves".

Now, if you don't want to draw Bezier curves at all in Debut, you also have an option:
In the Freehand/Blob brush/Paint bucket tools proprieties, set 0 as Point reduction value. This will make the tools to work in the way they did in version 11.

[Lebostein]

I don't understand why these things should be pro. In my eyes these are fundamental things in case of vector drawings. If the formulation for lines and shapes (created by free hand tool or blob brush) uses bezier parameters now (instead of the old spline formulation), then I expect that these parameters are visible (and optional editable). I think this hidden parameters confuses the hobby/occasional users: "All my points have the same distance, why my shape looks like non-uniform?" Sarcastic answer: "Yeah, some handles are longer than other handles, but you don't see this, because we have hidden it for you."

The hint with the smooth/peak nodes is a good thing! Thanks! But the Debut user can not see if a node is a smooth node or an manual bezier node with hidden informations! This makes the thing hard. Look at Inkscape. Smooth nodes have a round marker, peak nodes have a diamond marker and manual bezier nodes have a square marker. Such visual differentiation would be very helpful to understand, why the shape looks the way it looks.

[Víctor Paredes]

The hint with the "smooth/peak nodes" is a good thing! Thanks! But the Debut user can not see if a node is a smooth node or an manual bezier node with hidden informations! This makes the thing hard. Look at Inkscape. Smooth nodes have a round marker, peak nodes have a diamond marker and manual bezier nodes have a squere marker. That would be helpful.

You are welcome. It looks like a good idea to have different markers depending of the point curvature. I will review that for the future.

[Lebostein]

[chucky]

Good suggestion Lebostein

[hayasidist]

+1 to Lebostein's suggestion! (recognising that the Bezier handles may not be available in Debut, having a visual indication of peaked / smooth / asymmetric is very helpful in both debut and pro)

Victor - will you be putting this to the Dev team? (please)

[Víctor Paredes]

Victor - will you be putting this to the Dev team? (please)

Yes. I already took a note of it

[hayasidist]

thanks!

[Greenlaw]

That's a great idea! Just putting in my vote for it.

The bezier option in 12 has been great but I'm finding there are situations where using the 'old' curvature method can be easier for creating certain types of shapes and better for certain shape deformations. Lately, I've been switching to that mode when it's appropriate, so being able to see where I've done this would definitely be helpful.

[EdisonMuniz]

I completly agree with Greenlaw.
I'm a Inkscape user and I think that vector implementation is perfect.
But when I work the first time with Anime Studio 8, I thinked that incredible solution to work with vector, because it was simple.
Some times the simplicity is better.
I pray every day to SM don't destroy it.
It would be fantastic have both resources into only one software. None have it.
Many, many times, the old curvature is better and principaly because it's faster to have good results.
For a fine detail, the new implemantation is great.

My sugestion is that when we drag the mouse left and right ONLY AFFECT de central node (ALWAYS), not the nearest. (Such as AS 11).

The other nodes changes only when clicked and dragged.

++1 to Lebostein.

[EdisonMuniz]

My sugestion is that when we click outside and drag the mouse left and right only affected de central node (always), not the nearest. (Such as AS 11).

The other nodes changes only when directly clicked and dragged.